Navigating Eating Disorder Recovery with Alex P

​[The Decolonizing Medicine Podcast S01E12.  Original release date April 16, 2022.]

Jamee Pineda  
Mabuhay! You are listening to The Decolonizing Medicine Podcast with Jamee Pineda. That's me. My guest today is Alex P. Alex is Seattle based and So Cali raised, doing healing and community organizing. They identify as a queer xicanx and they're not fucking with the gender binary. Alex and I go way back from when I was first practicing acupuncture in Seattle. In today's episode, you're going to hear Alex talk about their ancestral medicine and their journey recovering from disordered eating. And I don't know if this is picking up on the mic or not, but my cat is yelling at me from the other side of the door. So you might hear some animals in the background. If you are new to this podcast, let me quickly introduce myself. My name is Jamee. I use he/him pronouns and I am a queer, non binary trans person and a practitioner of Hilot and Chinese medicine in Baltimore, Maryland, the traditional land of the Piscataway.  My ancestors are Tagalog and Chinoy. Now, let's get on with our show.

Jamee Pineda  
Hi, Alex, how are you doing today?

Alex P  
Hi, I'm doing pretty good. Question, I forgot to mention before.

Jamee Pineda  
Yeah

Alex P  
Do you still go by JP? Is it okay to call you JP?  

Jamee Pineda  
You can call me JP or Jamee.  Either one is fine. 

Alex P  
Okay

Jamee Pineda  
Yeah. Thanks for asking. You're like old school, old school friend. 

Alex P  
Yeah

Jamee Pineda  
At this point, yeah. 

Alex P  
Going back to 2015

Jamee Pineda  
So I, I really wanted to talk to you because I saw some of the stuff that you were posting on your Instagram. And I know you as a healer, someone who practices ancestral medicine and body work. But I always love hearing about folks who are doing healing work for themselves, but also engaging in healing work for the communities and being in relationship to healing in in those ways, right, externally and then internally as well. So yeah, that's, that's like the main thing that I want to talk about today with you. How do you feel about that.

Alex P  
Yeah, for sure, we could definitely go into it. I've got a lot going on, a lot of stories, and they all relate back to ancestral medicine and healing.

Jamee Pineda  
For folks who are not super familiar with your work? Would you just take a quick moment to describe what it is that you do and how you relate to healing?

Alex P  
Yeah, totally. So my name is Alex P. Payan.  I'll rattle off my identities because that's a part of my healing as well. I am a xicanx of Mexican descent coming from Southern California, residing in Seattle for about 15 years. I am queer non binary, but I use the term sacred gender in this whole connection to indigeneity within that gender term identity. What else do I do? So yes, I do healing work. I practice traditional folk healing that's based out of Mexico, indigenous folks there, but also has influences throughout the world, takes influences from all over, from my parts of Africa. The Spanish of course, because colonization, the Middle East, all these things. So and that is called curanderismo. I've been practicing that coming upon seven years. And then I also am a licensed massage therapist. been doing that for over 10 years and I combine the two and do a bunch of stuff within a healthcare clinic that actually JP helped start back in 2016. 

Jamee Pineda  
Oh, yeah!

Alex P  
In Seattle. Yeah.

Jamee Pineda  
That was the Well on Beacon. Are you still working out of there?

Alex P  
Yeah, it's right now currently, it's just me, Mariko, and Tisha. So, three folks that were there since the beginning, we just celebrated our five years in October.

Jamee Pineda  
I can't believe it's been that long. Wow. 

Alex P  
It's wild.

Jamee Pineda  
For folks who are not familiar with the well, could you describe it?

Alex P  
Yeah. So the Well start off as kind of a collective idea amongst folks, we had the opportunity of a space that we already were working in, to kind of take over the lease and reopen and we decided to, like make it more of a spotlight, really promote that it's all POC, mostly queer and trans folks, they're there as providers and practitioners. And we wanted to open up and serve that community, folks that we were already serving, but we want to be way more intentional about what we're doing, why we're doing it. And all that. And it's been pretty good over the years. A lot of people come in now as far as providers, so many folks that we were able to serve, and do some really cool things. 

Jamee Pineda  
Yeah, 

Alex P  
It's a cool project.

Jamee Pineda  
I love the Well. I loved that we really created a space that was pretty multidisciplinary. So there's been all kinds of people that worked at the Well, from mental health therapists to more physical medicine, like acupuncture and bodywork. And Tisha, Tisha does Reiki and then I think also yoga. Is that right?

Alex P  
Yeah, they recently few years ago, got their massage license. So they do massage now and also cranial sacral. 

Jamee Pineda  
Oh, that's so awesome. 

Alex P  
Yeah. So all kinds of stuff. Yeah, we've had all kinds of folks there, including one of your past guests. Julz, hit those archives. Check out that interview was really good. Julz was there for a bit doing the tattooing.

Jamee Pineda  
Yes, the ritual cultural tattooing. So one of my favorite things, when I was working at the Well, is that because I was around so many other practitioners, we were often doing treatments on each other or trying different techniques. And I just, I really loved being in that environment and getting to experience so many different modalities, and so many different approaches to healing. Which leads me to my next question for you. So as people who practice healing arts, we are in need of healing just as much as anyone else. And I want to know where you're at on your own healing journey, and how has your connection to ancestral medicine influenced this?

Alex P  
Oh, yeah, for sure. So when I got into curanderismo, practicing traditional medicine, I felt it was a very strong pull, a very strong call, like, this is what you need right now in multiple levels. I talk a lot about what my teachers like, we use this medicine to heal ourselves. And we also use it to share and help facilitate other folks healing. So I have a long history of using this medicine to heal all kinds of things, and now in from my own self, but talking about like, generational healing traumas, all these multiple things, like, you know.  Where I'm at right now, in my healing journey, is I have been struggling with an eating disorder for over 15 years. And for a long time, I thought I was able to maintain it. I thought I was able to, like, do okay, on my own and, and kind of work through it, you know, it's like, I'm not at this extreme. So I'm doing okay, but I've had issues with anorexia and restrictive eating over the years and having now I know, all the different complexities. Okay, so recently, I decided to seek professional help in going to a treatment center for it. And that came out of me doing support for a close friend, chosen family, that was dealing with the same thing and they went to treatments.  So I was supporting them and just through - we were doing what we call the trickle down therapy. They will go through their program, their classes, and come back and be like, Okay, this is what I learned and this is this like, we're gonna let's have a meal together. We'll work on proportioning, we'll work on this, we'll get you into like a state or help you as well.  And I was like shit. I am nowhere where I thought it was on this to be able to this do this by myself. So it's been a few months, I just finished two and a half months of a partial hospitalization program. And I just started this week, a intensive outpatient program. So yeah, that's, that's where I'm at now. And because, like doing therapy and doing all these, like exposure therapies and doing group work, I kind of came into a program a little bit advanced because I have already done healing work on my own, on multiple bodies, not just treating things in isolation, like mental health, physical health, emotional health, spiritual health, energetic bodies.  The medicine I practice it's all one.  You treat the body as a whole. So even though I have very little experience in the mental aspect, I came into, like already, like, Okay, I have all this insight, I have all this awareness, I have all these things, because I've been doing these works, but not in in just in different ways. So yeah, treating this and realizing that there's such a big connection with eating disorders and mental health. I've been dealing with depression for over 20 years. So those two are so closely tied together.  Learning how to work through my depression, on supplements, I actually, like got a diagnosis, since you know, I got one when I was a kid, but like, another one, and like, Oh, you're deficient on this, let's do some blood work. And let's see what's going on. All these things. So it's, it's been a wild couple months, but really good.

Jamee Pineda
Thank you for sharing that. Thank you for really being open about your process and what you're going through. I really liked the term that you used "trickle down therapy". Can you expand on that a little bit more?

Alex P  
Yeah, so um, I think we kind of adapted that from it must've been like a meme or a reel or something that we saw. And just the idea, like, you know, therapy is not really accessible to everybody at all times. So sometimes we can use like, if one person is in therapy for the same similar things, you're like, Okay, this is what I'm learning. If you're open to it, maybe we can work on this together, maybe we can help you with this idea or this skill or this thought or whatever it is. And it's kind of just like, goes down the line without actually having to go into see a therapist, just build and teach and then all that kind of like a knowledge skill share.

Jamee Pineda  
That's like, it's almost like an open source healing, where everyone it's like an independent like, like, nobody's hoarding this knowledge. Nobody is hoarding the healing techniques that they have received.  I love that I love that I love that you were sharing with each other and that as you were assisting this person, your own wellness also becomes a priority.

Alex P  
Yeah, for sure. And now that I'm in treatment, we went to different facilities too so now we get to compare notes. Now we get to say like, oh my dietician's doing this or like I learned this about EDs this week, or Oh, what are you doing now? Like, you know, this person is still in treatment. They're way more advanced, I think.  They're like a couple months ahead of me. Yeah, it's pretty...it's kind of a foreign concept, but we do it a lot. And I think it's something that can be cultivated and practiced a little bit more.

Jamee Pineda  
This thought is popping in my head. And it's, it's not exactly the same, but I just, I'm thinking about how like, I have the passwords to multiple video streaming services from like, different people. Like, we're like, I have a Netflix account, someone else has an HBO account, someone else has an account. Someone else has a Disney plus. And we're all just swapping passwords, so that we can all get the good stuff together.

Alex P  
Yeah. 

Jamee Pineda  
We're just combining resources.

Alex P  
Yeah, in a way. Yeah, exactly. But in the way it's like kind of, you know, hacking the system.

Jamee Pineda  
Yeah, absolutely. And I think something like healthcare, it should be hacked. You know, like if it's not accessible for a variety of reasons like, it needs to be like if if, if providers are not going to figure out a way to get that healing to the community, the community is going to figure out its own way. 

Alex P  
Yeah

Jamee Pineda  
I'm in full support of that. So as you're going through this journey, what has been supportive for you, outside of the program, and outside of this friend that you've been working with?

Alex P  
Yeah. So a lot of the practices that I have been doing to myself for years, I'm still doing them, and they still are just as effective as they ever were. So do I do a lot of things with nature, I do a lot of things with plants, plant medicine, I like cleansings, ritual and ceremony. So those are the ways I'm able to continue on, like, being strong, showing up also, like, having these concepts in therapy kind of sync and, and to be able to apply them, you know? So within these rituals and ceremonies there is like that meditative components there is like, I could be doing journaling, I could reflect a lot on where I'm at, where I want to be. And also connect with ancestors and my guides, like, Alright, here we go again, like, this is where I'm at, you know, thanks for the support here. Thanks for bringing me to this place. Also, like, Hey, I might need a little bit more help. 

Jamee Pineda  
Yeah. 

Alex P  
Does that answer your question? 

Jamee Pineda  
Yeah, that does.  Even though you are actively accessing this particular recovery program right now, like these issues that you've been dealing with, you've been dealing with for several years. I'm curious how that has influenced the way that you care for others.

Alex P  
So with the ED stuff, it's very tricky. Like I said, it's really connected with mental health things. And that's something I didn't really know or realize. And with ED things...EDs exist and can thrive and survive in isolation. Similar with depression, we're not really skilled a lot or even excited to talk about these things. So that's how they grow because we're not really open about it. It's very secretive. I think that's changing a little bit, and people are more open to talk about stuff. So I am just now opening up and talking. Recently, I made that post on Instagram, because I was looking for some help with fundraising. And that was the first time publicly, like, I have eaten disorder, I've had it for over 15 years. It's still going to show up as far as where - how that is going to help other people. To get to open up a little bit. It's so difficult to talk about food stuff with folks that have never dealt with it. Just like other things, like, you know, say if you like lost a parent, you won't be able to talk about with folks that have parents, this is something you have to experience, right? That's the analogy. Yeah, I now have gained that understanding of what it's like to have this disorder or you know, trying to find new word for disorder, but this like ill relationship with food and the tie ins with mental health. And so many folks in our communities deal with this. And sometimes it feels fairly, like hopeless, and it's really hard. And all these things and sometimes you don't really know what the damages that's happening because of these behaviors and tendencies of disordered eating and eating disorders. I think time will show that now like I am able to support are able to help or even have some words and be able to talk to somebody because it's well like to explain like, Oh, I just sometimes I just don't want to eat and some days I just won't eat a whole day. And that is just how it works and there's no really rhyme or reason. Just it happens, but some folks don't understand that. So we have that we're able to sit in a room with people that have the same kind of things. And it's like, oh, this is normal behavior. But also, we understand that this is something that's been hurting us for a long time. It's been horrible. So let's all collectively kind of figure out and share stories and you know, other ways that we've been able to overcome some things because we're all at different levels, right?

Jamee Pineda  
Yeah, I'm hearing a lot of tools around empathy and understanding of something that is not easy to put into words. 

Alex P  
Yeah

Jamee Pineda  
And that's not something that's easy to describe. It's not something that is easy to relate to, unless you've had direct experience. And I imagine each person's experience is probably really unique and really individualized.

Alex P  
Yeah, for sure. There's so many different variables that can create these things, too.

Jamee Pineda  
So my next question is how can people connect with you, learn about your work, and support your work, but also support you as an individual?

Alex P  
Yeah, so I'm not really a big on social media.  I'm on there, but my handle is really hard to display spell out. So it's AlexP_at_the_Well, so Alex P at the Well with a bunch of spaces.

Jamee Pineda  
I'll put that in the show notes. It'll look clearer, we'll link to it.

Alex P  
I'm a wild person. I don't know why I'm like this, like, not very accessible, which is fine. I do have a website that I've been working on for a little bit where I sell all my medicines that should be hopefully get my shit together and put that out. And that's twothreedistro.com. And there I'll have all my goods that I make and sell.

Jamee Pineda  
What kind of goods are you making and selling?

Alex P  
Oh, so I've been messing with tinctures for a few years. And I have a few blends that are like my go tos. So mostly stuff for things it started out like, you know, this, I can use a tincture for this ailment or for this thing, and more people can use these things. So it's like a lot of stuff around anxiety. A lot of things around sleeping, I also had one for dreaming and working on one that is for migraines, both a preventative and then also headaches, working on some for depression, making some salves for body aches and pains, soreness, and I have an oil that is infused copal, which is a resin that we use a lot in ceremonies and just it's our medicine. We will use it for cleansings, and ancestral connection, for protective energy. All kinds of things.  If you've ever seen danza, traditional Aztec dancing, or xica dancing, usually you'll see somebody carrying a fire burning that medicine. So I have that like it's infused with a jojoba oil, which is also another native plant to the Americas. So the copal, the resin infused with the oil, you use it all the time for different things, protecting and whatnot. So I have that and yeah, working on some other things. It's fim. I like it. 

Jamee Pineda  
You've always got a lot going on. That's like a one stop shop over there.

Alex P  
Also I have goods and stuff. I go to Mexico a lot and I have elders there.  They're really awesome. So I'll bring down their stuff. Sell it to... I used to do a lot of markets and whatnot. 

Jamee Pineda  
Cool. 

Alex P  
Yeah, just trying to get all that together.

Jamee Pineda  
So every episode, we do a community shout out where we like to highlight QTBIPOC groups or individuals that are doing some really awesome work to try to encourage folks to check them out and redistribute resources to them. Is there anyone or any group that you would like to highlight for today's episode?

Alex P  
Alright, so you asked me this question leading up to this interview

Jamee Pineda  
 I did. 

Alex P  
I'm like, ah, I have like 30 different groups and people I could talk about.  There's so many folks here doing rad shit and I love 'em all. And like, I don't know who to say. I think on the questionnaire thing I just wrote to the the Filipinos.

Jamee Pineda  
All the Filipinos!

Alex P  
I'll dive into that more a little bit, what I mean by all the Filipinos. For the last couple of years, I've been working doing community organizing, activist, social justice work with groups founded in the Philippines and in the US, and I like working with the Filipinos. They've kind of taken me in and adopted me. Since I'm of Mexican descent, I always am like, well, you know, we're a colonized cousin. So it works. Like I could work with y'all and do what you're doing again. 

Jamee Pineda  
It's true. 

Alex P  
It is.

Jamee Pineda  
We have a lot of medicine in common too. Yeah.

Alex P  
Yeah, I think there's a lot of similarities. I've worked with a few people that are practicing different medicines. Yeah, there is want to know more about that. But yeah, some of the stuff that's happening, like ? wise. So like, there's a lot of groups around here: Bayan, Anakbayan the youth group, the group of youth, sorry, Gabriella, migrante. And that was doing like a solidarity group. But there's tons of stuff going on, tons of awesome people, mostly queer folks to like always in the forefront of just like making change. Yeah, so shout out to the Filipinos.

Jamee Pineda  
So, so Anakbayan, Gabriella, and then you said Migrante and then plus all the Filipinos.

Alex P  
Also Malaya Movement

Jamee Pineda  
Malaya Movement. 

Alex P  
Yeah, there's there's a ton, sorry.

Jamee Pineda  
Oh, no, no. Everyone, give them give them all your money. Give the all the resources. Blessings to everyone. 

Alex P  
Yes, yes. 

Jamee Pineda  
So I only got you for a few more minutes. And I have one last question. And it's what's one thing you would like our listeners to take away from this episode?

Alex P  
Who Oh, this is a hard lesson learned. Especially if folks are doing healing work. It's really important to take care of yourself. I know sounds very individualized, but I learned that the hard way of caring for people and not focusing on like, to a degree where it was harmful for me because I wasn't getting what I needed. So we had a saying, one of my first teachers will say that we are our own healers, meaning it starts with us, like healing starts with us. We are our own healers, sometimes we need help, and we are the folks that guide or facilitate healing with us, but it is really us. So yeah, to take care of yourself, get what you need. Also be really gentle with yourself and understanding when things aren't really working out the way you want it things to. Yeah. I guess. I think that's...does that make sense?  Is that a solid message?

Jamee Pineda  
Yes, that is a solid message that I feel like people can use that message daily. Daily. Whoa, can you hear my dog?  

Alex P  
Oh there's Primm!

Jamee Pineda  
She's howling because there's a car going by? 

Alex P  
Oh, hug that dog for me.

Jamee Pineda  
 I will. Thank you so much for sharing your story and sharing your wisdom, Alex.

Alex P  
Thank you for having me, JP.

Jamee Pineda  
Yeah. All right, I'll talk to you later. 

Alex P  
All right, bye.

Jamee Pineda  
Announcements. So this is the penultimate episode of this season meaning second to last. I'm gonna be taking a break for June which is pride month so that I can attend all of the lovely events that are usually missing out on because I'm doing work within the community. So we'll continue our episodes again in July. But I do have one more episode coming after this. This summer I'll also be teaching another qi gong course this will be a QTBIPOC cohort and we'll be learning the Tian Gan set, which means heavenly stem. I'll be announcing those dates and the registration in my May newsletter. So if you're not signed up to get my email newsletter, you can head to linktr.ee/JameePinedaHealingArts and click on that link and sign up for the newsletter. I want to do a quick Patreon shout out because without my Patreon supporters, I wouldn't be able to offer scholarships and sliding scale for my QTBIPOC qi gong courses. I've also added captioning to my classes and captioning to the podcast. So thank you, all 41, of you for being here and supporting this work. And speaking of Patreon, I will be restructuring my account in the next couple of months to streamline my workload and spend more time practicing medicine which is what we're really here for. Last week, I had a lovely interview with Dr. Paige Yang and Dr. Tamsin Lee for Beauty as a Birthright. So this is a new collaboration podcast that they're doing together. And I'm not sure when that episode is coming out, but look out for it. They're both on social media. They are wonderful practitioners, scholars, activists, Dr. Paige Yang and Dr. Tamsin Lee. For those in the Baltimore area my schedule at Fruit Camp has expanded. So I am now offering in person acupuncture and bodywork sessions available on Sundays, Mondays, and Thursdays. We're still masked; I ask folks to wear an N95 equivalent and I also bring an N95 with me as well. So if you are interested in an in person session or you just want to hear more about my work, again, head to linktr.ee/jameepinedahealingarts.

Jamee Pineda  
Maraming salamat for listening to The Decolonizing Medicine Podcast. If you want to support this work via Patreon or apply to be a guest on the show, go to linktr.ee/jameepinedahealingarts. Music is by Amber Ojeda, Hed Kandi, and Rocky Marciano. Big thanks to Laurenellen McCann, AKA Amato, my beloved. Last but not least, thank you to all our listeners and supporters out there.  Ingat!