Jamee Pineda  0:15  
Hi, I'm Jamee Pineda and this is the decolonizing medicine podcast. I am a queer non binary trans person and my ancestors are Tagalog and Chinoy my healing arts practice is located at fruit camp in Baltimore, Maryland. And virtually today's guests brings sacredness to silliness. This might be one of the most playful conversations I have ever had. And it was an absolute delight. Ryookyung Kim (they/them) is a celebrant, a shapeshifter. Often in a transition of sorts, you means to stay to be with to leave behind, a message or mark to accept a gift to allow to grow. Kyung means fortune, blessing, wealth, auspicious, good luck ceremony, celebration. They currently support humans whose very existence disrupts the status quo by way of celebration that honors their sacred uniqueness through their creative one on one work with folks, they bring a sense of ease, wonder and playfulness into their healing containers.

Jamee Pineda  1:50  
Hi Ryoo

Ryookyung Kim  1:53  
Hi, Jamee.

Jamee Pineda  1:55  
It's so funny to say hello. Like after we've been chatting for like 10 minutes or whatever and then we have like a fake second. Hello.

Ryookyung Kim  2:07  
Is when you said hello. I was like, Oh my gosh, I This is so funny. I love this. Hello.

Jamee Pineda  2:14  
Hello. We have never started a conversation before.

Ryookyung Kim  2:18  
Like we started right now with this Hello. And there was no lead up to any of this. 

Jamee Pineda  2:23  
We didn't we didn't even exist like 40 seconds ago.

Ryookyung Kim  2:27  
We Yeah, we popped into the ether. 

Jamee Pineda  2:31  
Yeah, exactly. We just materialized right now through audio sound waves.

Ryookyung Kim  2:38  
I feel like an alien like with just like my hand up, be like, hello, hello, I'm here.

Jamee Pineda  2:46  
No one can see this because we're not recording visuals. But we were giving each other this the Live long and prosper.

Ryookyung Kim  2:57  
The Vulcan greeting

Jamee Pineda  3:00  
Well, I guess that that, like, very easily leads in to my first question. What Why is play important? And how do we engage in it?

Ryookyung Kim  3:11  
Okay, so this is I love this question because I was thinking about this in the shower. And play, I think is, is something that exists like everywhere, but as we've grown up, or at least my life experience, and I do suspect a lot of people feel this way too is that play becomes like a smaller, smaller, smaller part of our lives to the point where it's very difficult to feel the presence of it because we are so we are operating in this like way of being that is dictated by, you know, this like very oppressive and like one way type of living in this world kind of way, right? And I was thinking about where play pops up for me. And it's important because it's a part of like my re indigenizing process. It's a part of getting to know myself again, it is this ingredient that is like necessary to get to the places where I want to go. I think of it a lot too. As a really important part of inner child healing. cultivating a relationship with your inner child like a lot of that is through play. And most recently, I think I've been playing a lot with my gender, like not even like identity but just like how I want to move through the world and how I want to show up. So I want to play with clothes I want to play with like, the way that I think about The construct and playing with that and seeing what comes up. Playing through queerness, playing through like neurodiversity, like all of it, I think is so important, because if there's no play, like it just gets really stressful and boring, and serious and rigid. Yeah, so that's kind of the that's where I was kind of going with it. I feel like I'm still exploring it. Like, I'm sure that if I listen to this, like three months from now, six months from now, I'm gonna be like, oh, there was so much. I've built on it like because practice, play as a practice. So yeah, I think that's what I've got so far.

Jamee Pineda  5:44  
Okay. I'm so curious about the word re indigenizing. What does that mean to you?

Jamee Pineda  0:15  
Hi, I'm Jamee Pineda and this is the decolonizing medicine podcast might hear my dog chewing her little bone in the background. Anyways, I am a queer non binary trans person. My ancestors are Tagalog and Chinoy my healing arts practice is located at fruit camp in Baltimore, Maryland. My guest today is Rachelle faithful. They are a black, conjurer, folk healer, shamanic practitioner, and cultural worker rooted in DC and Virginia. Since initiation in 2015, they have supported 1000s of kindred ancestors and spirits in spiritual direction, energy, medicine, divination, as well as magic and death to the ship. Their work has been featured in color lines, the route and other platforms. For Shall we have third mysticism into other work around Healing Justice, strategy, conflict transformation, movement lawyering and community organizing. Just for context, this episode was recorded on June 29 2022, right after the overturning of Roe v Wade.

Good morning Richael. How are you today?

Richael Faithful  1:42  
I'm doing as well as can be expected to. Yeah, how are you maintaining?

Jamee Pineda  1:49  
You know, a lot of shits really rough right now. But I'm finding my places of joy. I'm finding my places of connection and love. Yeah, I mean, I don't know if there are spaces, right now, for me at least where those things don't those things. They have to coexist together. That is just, it's just how it is? Yeah. So my first question for you, which I guess is relevant to what I just spoke about, is how did you come into healing work?

Richael Faithful  2:27  
I always appreciate this question. I think my answers are different every time depending where I am in understanding not only my own healing journey, but also where we are collectively. And I just feel this week we entered into, you know, we're speaking at the end of June. And I feel like we've entered into even a different dimension of this time period. Where I think the stakes are quite high. And that's at least felt for me, and therefore makes me even more committed and invested. And also appreciative that this is the way I've moving and the people around me have been moving. So I think what a way of answering that question is, like, all of us are many of us, I entered into healing work, in part to find myself. And I think also like a lot of people and happened in a way that wasn't very linear, right? There are bits and pieces of my life that I remembered as being pivotal because I was following a question or inquiry. And I think that's still true for me, if I'm following an inquiry for a certain period of time, it leads me to these different places. And the challenge has been brave enough to keep saying yes to that inquiry where it brings you. So I remember, even as a disillusion teenager in a space, I grew up in Northern Virginia, in a particular part of Northern Virginia, that was pretty white, really fluent, really evangelical. And also, yeah, just and pretty buttoned up in a lot of ways. And that was not my family, that was not me. And so a lot of finding myself and healing was even trying to validate where I existed in this particular part of the world. And this is, you know, pre internet, really. So a lot of finding myself was also just like, actively trying to connect to people that at least identity levels we may not have a lot in common with but we were the outsiders of the community. I was doing my best to read books and stories to come into the city as often as I could, just to locate myself, and I made that connection to politics earlier on. So I was doing activism, even high school. It wasn't until later that we really got grounded in spirituality for me. I knew what I was not I was not an evangelical Christian. And I felt connected to some of the ways in which my mom experience spirituality, which is more of a connection to nature, and understanding universe or God, or whatever connects us as being very amorphous, but intelligent, and complex, but inherently loving. All things that were not at least demonstrated to me through the evangelical Christian community I lived in. So through college, I was interested in more contemplative practice and did some of that on my own. That deepened when I left college. For me, that trajectory then brought me back into DC, where I found a people of color Sangha, which helps me really ground in some really important teaching through a mindfulness and some around the Dharma. But mostly, that allowed me a space to be in that meditative practice. And the story goes from there where I found energy work in Reiki, I had an affinity for that. And that expanded my worldview and my sense of like, what healing that was even possible could be. And that brought me home over a series of years to the tradition I'm most connected to now, which is conjure, right, the southern US based practice of enslaved Africans, part of the African diasporic set of spiritual traditions. And that was like, almost like a whole decade journey that I just described to you and trying to locate and find myself. So my healing work continues very much on a spiritual level, but I'm also spending a lot of time these stages on my own emotional healing, continuing to do different levels of my trauma work. Understanding why I still like, the ways in which I react to things are things that that really activate me deeper into somatic practices and

Jamee Pineda  
Mabuhay. My guest today is Anna Balagtas. She is a queer piny, femme, radical birth worker, educator facilitator, energy worker and pleasure advocate. Anna is the founder of pocket doula and supports emerging birth workers in radicalizing their practice through heart centered mentorships, facilitations and community organizing. She houses her practice under the decolonization of birth work and transformative queer care. Her deepest joys come from witnessing her communities thrive through community care, mutual aid, and abolition work. If you are new to this podcast, my name is Jamee Pineda. I use he him pronouns and I am a queer, non binary trans person. And my ancestors are Tagalog and Chinoy. I am also a practitioner of Hilot and Chinese medicine. I offer my services in person at Fruitcamp in Baltimore, Maryland, as well as virtually. Now let's get on with our show.

Okay, welcome Anna. It's so good to finally talk with you. I think we've been like lurking on each other social media for a little bit.

Anna Balagtas  
Sending like sending hearts here and there.

Jamee Pineda  
So there's, there's so many things I want to talk with you about, but I'll try to keep my questions like, fairly contained. I mean, we were having our little check in right before here and talking about food. And we're Filipino and we got really excited and I was like

Anna Balagtas  
Yes!

Jamee Pineda  
We should just do an episode that is only about Filipino food. That could be like, you know, six hours long, but we're not gonna talk about that today. We're gonna talk about doula work, birth work. So before I start asking you the serious questions, how are you doing today?

Anna Balagtas  
I am well, I am fed. I am happy. I am currently sipping my chocolate milk that came from the Philippines as we're talking about food. Like yesterday, I did a huge haul of Filipino food in preparation for this talk, because I was like taking the culture. We're gonna hang out with some cool Filipino people tomorrow, take it in.

Jamee Pineda  
I almost asked if you had Milo or if you had Ovaltine.

Anna Balagtas  
We do love that Milo life. We do.

Jamee Pineda  
I remember when I went to the Philippines when I was a kid, like I asked for, for Milo. And then when I got it, whatever mix they had given me was the kind without sugar. 

Anna Balagtas  
No!  That's criminal!

Jamee Pineda  
I was like, Oh, I was like, so confused. I was like, Wait, why does this tastes like? It doesn't taste like anything. It doesn't look terrible. I just I didn't know I had never had the kind that you like, add sugar to?

Anna Balagtas  
 Yes. 

Jamee Pineda  
And I yeah, I was expecting it to taste like Ovaltine, because that's what my grandma gave me. 

Anna Balagtas  
Yes, yes. 

Jamee Pineda  
Betrayal. 

Anna Balagtas  
I'm so sorry that that did happen to you. And that's, that's sad in all parts of the way. It's very sad.

Jamee Pineda  
I've been trying to recover that from that my entire life. But moving on. So let's ask let's talk about let's talk about birth work. 

Anna Balagtas  
Yes. 

Jamee Pineda  
So you're a doula. You do a lot of birth work. And I want to know what working with you as a doula is like.

Anna Balagtas  
Yeah, good question. So I think working with me as a doula, um, I'd like to think that it's very fun. I like to think that it feels familial in a way. So how I go about my work is I work outside of the scope of practice. And for folks who are listening who are not quite sure what a scope of practice looks like for a doula, it basically says that if you are working as a doula, you can't work as anything else. So if you are a doula, you can't also be an herbalist. You can't also be an educator. You can't also be a massage therapist, like you can't be any of these things. You can only ever be that person who supports someone through labor, birth, whatever. So I don't live by that life. Because I think that doula work is a combination of putting together all parts of yourself and all parts of your intersections within your work because doula work is life's work. So of course, I'm going to bring all of these parts that inform me of who I am to informing how working with you is going to be like, because if I know how to make my way through a kitchen, I'm going to cook you all of these wonderful foods, if I know how to massage you so good, I'm gonna do that because that's helpful for you. And it's also bringing parts of me into into our space together. So working with me as a doula means that we are going to be confronting a lot of these like norms, I guess, that we we see that doulas are supposed to be"professional". And sometimes being professional kind of means that you're cold or you're not able to be vulnerable, because you're not able to share parts of yourself with your clients. But I don't live by that, like I'm so vulnerable with my clients. And that's only because they're so vulnerable with me, like I'm literally in the most vulnerable transition in your life, the most I can do is show you the same, is to be vulnerable back with you. And that's how we can form that familial connection.

Jamee Pineda  
That Okay, so when you were talking about that, it kind of I don't know if you saw my facial reaction, but I was like, What the fuck? Like, if you're gonna be a doula, you can't do anything else? And to me as like a health care practitioner, who does Chinese medicine, who does Filipino medicine, and like, well, why wouldn't you do everything in your toolbox that is required of that person or like to treat that person that's like, kind of blows my mind that that is so compartmentalized...

Anna Balagtas  
Yes

Jamee Pineda  
If you're doing doula work in a professional setting. So I mean, related to what you were talking about before, can you clarify like if someone is doing more of a mainstream approach? As a practicing doula, like, what does that look like compared to how you work?

Unknown Speaker  
Yeah, what a great question. So this really also depends on where you've trained, right? So I'm very wary that there are whitewashed and capitalist doula trainings out there. And what these doula trainings are, are they like to protect who they are as organization, rather than uplift the birth workers who are coming within their organization. And so mainstream doulas, they don't know any better, because these are like the biggest doula trainings that you've probably heard of. And they put the scope of practice as a liability clause, right? The reason why people have scope of practices is so that in case someone gets in trouble, or in case there's a lawsuit, they can kind of wash their hands away from that, and be like, oh, you know, it's not within my scope. I can't help you there, I can't help you do that. So I what I found with mainstream doulas is that they're working so closely tied to the systems that actually harm the clients that we're supposed to serve. And it actually harms themselves too, because you can't put yourself on, on what your practice should be like, you can't put your whole self into it. And for for them, it's, that's really discouraging. Like, that's really sad that you're not able to do that, because you just signed a clause, basically, to say that you're protecting these organizations rather than wanting to uplift yourself.

Jamee Pineda  
Thank you for that. I definitely see parallels to that in the fields that I work in, too. So we were talking about Filipino food earlier. And so this is also a little bit related to that, but how has living in diaspora as Filipino person informed your work?

Anna Balagtas  
Yeah. Ooh. Um, so I'll start it off by saying that living in diaspora is really painful. And the way that I think living in diaspora has informed my work is because living in diaspora feels like being in constant transition. I feel like I'm moving in the space of like, in between and not not feeling so closely tied to Canadian culture, but also feeling so far away from Filipino culture. Like, that's really heartbreaking and it's isolating, and sometimes it's really difficult to navigate. And so knowing this, I feel that people who are coming to me are also coming from a place of deep transition, right. So whether that's the transition of parenthood, whether that's the transition and of death, or like literally any transition in your reproductive life that can be really scary and isolating and difficult. And so I feel my work is informed because I understand the ways in which comfort most times for us who are in this space of in between just looks like witnessing. It just looks like active listening, or simply asking someone like how best can I support you right now. And I know that no one can fix the feelings of isolation and sadness of living in diaspora for me, the same ways I can't fix the feelings of my clients who are also experiencing discomfort or pain by being in this reproductive transition. But I know the power of being witnessed. And so I offer the same for my clients as I wish is being offered to me as I'm living in this transition of diaspora.

Jamee Pineda  
That's beautiful to hear. Thank you. It. It like brings to mind a renegotiating of what a patient provider relationship can be in that you're not necessarily an expert. You're not necessarily fixing anybody, like nobody's necessarily broken? 

Anna Balagtas  
Yes.

Jamee Pineda  
 Like, it's not always about problem solving. Right? Like you're there alongside someone rather than like you are treating someone or repairing someone.

Anna Balagtas  
Yeah, I love that shift of language, too.  I never liked it when doctors would be like, this is how I'm going to treat you. It's like no, how are you going to support me? Like, I know the ways in which my body will feel better. I just need you to support me on that. Not that you need to fix me, because I'm, quote unquote, broken to you, you know.

Jamee Pineda  
Yeah.  For my next question, what have you found most challenging and most rewarding about being the pocket doula?

Anna Balagtas  
Oh, great question. So the two of these things relate. The most challenging thing that I felt with pocket doula was, when I first started, I found that most people who found my content or my offerings, were mostly white folks, and families with money, like lots of money. And I had a lot of trouble with this, because I knew in my heart of hearts, these are not the people I wanted to prioritize supporting. And I fully believe that everyone deserves support, everyone deserves support. But I believe that white folks already have plenty of this, right. And I wanted to cater more to BIPGM, Black, Indigenous and People of the global majority folks and caring for our kin instead. And so as pocket doula grew, I started becoming really loud in my content, and in my offerings, saying that birth work was political. And this work is decolonial. And specifically mentioning that I'm prioritizing supporting BIPGM folks, and making sure that there was access financially or otherwise. And that's when I started seeing more and more of our kin showing up asking for support. And that, for me, was the biggest reward.  The challenge was, oh, my gosh, so many white folks, not really my thing. But then as we grew, it was like, Okay, here's my kin, like, this is actually where I want to be. And that felt so good.

Jamee Pineda  
I have a follow up question to that. Were you ever told by by your teachers or other doula colleagues, like, if you want to work with this group you have to see white folks, you have to see people with money? I've been told that.

Anna Balagtas  
Yeah.

Jamee Pineda  
Like, like, you can't work with queer and trans folks of color, queer and trans folks of the global majority, because you won't make any money? 

Anna Balagtas  
Yeah. 

Jamee Pineda  
You have to see rich people.

Anna Balagtas  
Yes, yes, I was. It wasn't specifically that it only had to be white folks. But I was told that in order for me to be successful as a doula I needed to cater to people who can actually afford my services. And, like, it's such a catch 22 Because yes, birth work should be fully paid for like we this work is. So much of our labor goes into it, right? And a lot of that labor is either underpaid, or not paid at all. And so I totally believe that we are getting that shmoney when we can because we do deserve it. But at the same time, not everyone that we want to be able to support has access financially. So how do you marry the two? How do you find that compromise in between? So yeah, I have been told, like, you know, if you're going to be this radical doula da da da, you're never gonna make money and I'm like, watch me. Watch me, please. I can and I will.

Jamee Pineda  
Yeah, it really, I mean, I'm still on my journey on that. And it like being told no, I think is really one it's a disservice to our communities and then two, it discounts out ability to think creatively beyond capitalist structures. If you believe that you believe there wasn't anything prior to capitalism. 

Anna Balagtas  
Yeah! 

Jamee Pineda  
Which is bullshit, because capitalism isn't that old. 

Anna Balagtas  
No!

Jamee Pineda  
Colonization is also not that old, compared to like, all of human history.

Anna Balagtas  
And way before this, like if we think about even us as Filipinos, the way that we have lived, was full of community culture, community care, mutual aid, and who's to say that we can't also bring this back into this colonized world, right? In our work of decolonization, we have to go back to our roots of what our life looked like before colonization and then bringing that back. And so for us, it's not a means of all you're not going to make any money because these are the people you want to support. It's how do I still live comfortably? It's not that I need to be rich. It's just that I need to be sustained. How can I be sustained and still serve my community? Because I am rich in so many ways that isn't just financially.

Jamee Pineda  
Exactly. I mean, I wouldn't mind being like a little bit rich. I am a triple Libra, so I do like shiny things and like luxurious things. So I would like to be like comfortable plus.

Anna Balagtas  
Yes. I totally believe you.  I totally see you. I hear you. I am also a Libra moon so I'm just like, that was it. Oh, that for-

Jamee Pineda  
I see you with your old earrings. I see you with your gold earrings.  They are like huge hoops with little danglies inside.

Anna Balagtas  
I live, love, lavishly frivolously, but still thinking of community, but looking good while doing it, you know? Yeah.

Jamee Pineda  
I know. Like the Philippines is, I think, one of the hugest deposits of gold in the world. I think it's like the second largest. 

Anna Balagtas  
What! I don't know that. 

Jamee Pineda  
Yeah, there's like a ton of gold in the Philippines. And if you look at like records of how we dressed and how we took care of our bodies and adorned ourselves, there's gold everywhere like we have always been luxurious and fancy and beautiful. 

Anna Balagtas  
Oh my god that is our birthright. 

Jamee Pineda  
It is a birthright to be fucking cute, you know? And to feel yourself. Like we have like, have you seen like pictures of ancient Filipino traditional dentistry? 

Anna Balagtas  


Jamee Pineda  


Where they like they like gold plate their teeth? 

Anna Balagtas  
No, what?!

Jamee Pineda  
Yeah, it's a thing.

Anna Balagtas  
I didn't know that. 

Jamee Pineda  
Like we were always Bejeweled.

Anna Balagtas  
Oh my god. So if I decide to get a gold tooth, I'm just gonna say I'm just coming back to my roots. You know as you do.

Jamee Pineda  
Look it up look, look at how we adorned ourselves. Also, quick shout out to Samonte Cruz who's releasing their line of lingling-o nose rings

Anna Balagtas  
Oh my god!

Jamee Pineda  
And other jewelry they're they're a non binary queer Filipinax located on the west coast of Canada.  They're a jeweler they do lots of cool shit. So just quick shout out to Samonte Cruz.

Anna Balagtas  
Oh my gosh, you are gonna see an order for me very very soon.

Jamee Pineda  
They came out with their with their lingling-o nose ring and I was like, "BUY."

Anna Balagtas  
Add to cart.

Jamee Pineda  
I need that. It is for my own decolonization. I need that.

Anna Balagtas  
This is a business expense, actually.

Jamee Pineda  
Exactly.  Well, this leads really nicely into my next question, which is what are your dreams for birth work as it relates to decolonizing?

Anna Balagtas  
Hmm. My dream for us to decolonize this work is to essentially and very simply bring it back in the hands of community. I am really reimagining futures in where medical hierarchies, medical systems, organizations are no longer in place.  I am all about for abolishing the cops, but also that looks like abolishing the systems that have funded the cops, right? And so when I'm thinking about decolonization, I'm thinking about ways that we can serve our community through mutual aid, through community support, through knowledge sharing, instead of having to go to University, College for five, six years to just get a piece of paper.  Why can we not just share this knowledge so that we can care for each other. And then also pulling from ancestral knowledge too, because that has informed us for years and years and years, like eons? And now we're here. What was the turn where we're like, let's make money off of people knowing shit. Like, why? Why can't we just talk about it? Why can't we just share this is this not the best way of decolonizing is to just share access? So that is, that is my dreams of decolonizing birth work is through that sharing of access and just giving out the resources when you can and when it's sustainable for you.

Jamee Pineda  
This is the part of the episode where we do our community shout out.

Anna Balagtas  
Oh yay!

Jamee Pineda  
So I would love to know what BIPOC group or individual you would like to uplift for community shout out. And earlier, you used a different term than BIPOC. Could you break that down for me again?

Anna Balagtas  
Yes, I use BIPGM, which is Black, Indigenous, and People of the global majority.

Jamee Pineda  
Great. I love that. I love that. I don't like it that we we often are using language that makes us seem like we're not everywhere.

Anna Balagtas  
Yeah. Right. Or like-

Jamee Pineda  
Or like, numerically marginalized? And like we aren't,

Anna Balagtas  
yeah, there it is. And it also still centers whiteness as the norm, like people of color, instead of what the baseline is people and people are white? No, we're people of the global majority, because there's much more of us.  White people are not the dominant people on this world. And so we should name it as as it is that people of the global majority are out there and we are running shit. We are.

Jamee Pineda  
Otherwise, they wouldn't try to take our things.

Anna Balagtas  
Right?! It's so shiny, so new. Of course it is. It's because we made it.

Jamee Pineda  
Exactly. So anyways, what group or individual would you like us to know about, perhaps redistribute resources to?

Anna Balagtas  
Yes. So I would love to give a shout out to two BIPGM folks who are in my mentorship right now their names are Tasha and MaryAnne. I just want to say thank you so much for allowing me the privilege of witnessing you through your practice. And seeing yourselves move as radical and decolonial birth workers is such a proud moment for me. It's it's it really is such a privilege for me. And so you can find Tasha at Nexus Community Birthwork, or @nexuscommunitycare. And you can find MaryAnne @ating.kamay I which is like "our hands" in Tagalog. And so that's how you can find them uplift their work, tell them they're doing great. They are amazing. And if you are in and around their area, hire them. Give them that shmoney

Jamee Pineda  
Where are they? Where are they located?

Anna Balagtas  
So MaryAnne is I'm embarrassed to say I don't remember where in the States, I think somewhere in either the West Coast. And Tasha is actually in Canada in Ontario in a small town called Kingston.

Jamee Pineda  
Awesome. What words of wisdom do you have for folks either aspiring to do birth work or folks who are interested in hiring a doula? 

Anna Balagtas  
Yeah, the two really connect for me. So what I want to say to aspiring birth workers and also to folks who want to hire a doula is that I just want to remind you that you are deserving of transformative and radical support no matter where you're landing in your journey, and that there's 100% someone out there who can and will meet your needs, wherever you are. And you deserve support that feels loving to you, that feels good in both your mind and your body, and it feels like a big body "Yes". And if you don't know where to start, you can ask me.

Jamee Pineda  
So we're looking for a fuck yes. And if you're like, No, it's not a fuck yes. And you're kind of like confused. People should reach out to you.

Anna Balagtas  
Yes. And then I can say I can help you or I can redirect you to someone who can and maybe they will feel like a hell yes in your body.

Jamee Pineda  
So for folks who want to reach out to what is the best way to do that?

Anna Balagtas  
Yes, the best way is to find me on Instagram. That is where I am most active. I am @pocketdoula. If you want to check out my services and my offerings. I also do workshops and trainings you can find that at yourpocketdoula.com.  And lastly, I also have a Patreon so if you like monthly newsletters if you like monthly resource recommendations, you can find me at Patreon. Also @pocketdoula

Jamee Pineda  
Awesome. Any workshops or any events that are coming up that you want to let us know about?

Anna Balagtas  
Yes, I am hosting my very, very last live workshop of Ating Bahay, which is its support for emerging radical birth workers who don't really know how to begin or don't really know how to start radicalizing and decolonizing their practice.  Ating Bahay is gonna be on September 24, which I believe is a Saturday. So if you want to catch it live for the last time, come come!

Jamee Pineda  
All right. Thank you so much for being here, for just sharing your thoughts, sharing your stories, talking about food with me. It's been so much fun.

Anna Balagtas  
Thank you so much for having me and literally anytime, anytime we can be loud proud about Filipino food. I am here.

Jamee Pineda  
Awesome. Awesome. Thanks so much. 

Anna Balagtas  
Thank you

Jamee Pineda  
The next eight week QTBIPOC Qi Gong course is going to start on October 2. These classes are a sliding scale and virtual so you can join in anywhere you have internet access. If this calls to you head to my website to register. I often do have partial and full scholarships available. If you're thinking, "Wow, this is awesome. How do I support this even if I'm not participating?" Join my Patreon. Funds from Patreon go to scholarships for this course, as well as captions for this podcast. As some of you know, my origins in medicine came from working in the nonprofit world in ways that led to extreme burnout. This has shaped how I practice medicine and how I continue to care for myself as a queer trans autistic brown person. On October 22, I am collaborating with Cuán McCann, creator of Build With and Bmore Bata on a workshop called Burn Out or Burn Bright. Earlybird registration is available throughout September. So hurry up and get in there. We are moving from late summer into fall. This is a great time to check out my 5 phase zine seires. The zines contain elemental magic and tips on how to live in alignment with the seasons for better health. For more info on zines, my work or my events, sign up for my mailing list or check out my website at jamee-pineda-lac.com.

Maraming salamat for listening to The Decolonizing Medicine Podcast. Music is by Amber Ojeda, Hedkandi, and Rocky Marciano. Big thanks to Cuán McCann for audio engineering all of the episodes. Last but not least, thank you to all our listeners and supporters out there.  Ingat!

Jamee Pineda  
Mabuhay! Welcome to the second season of The Decolonizing Medicine Podcast. We release episodes every full moon so roughly once a month. This episode we are going to be interviewing Clarinda Tivoli.  Clarinda is the founder of #thematriarchalbusiness and course educator of the new Decolonizing Business unit at MBU, Clarinda Tivoli is a child of Oceania - an iTaukei and Samoan woman and mother, born in Tāmaki Makaurau, Aotearoa, now living in the occupied Kingdom of Hawaii.
 
Moved by the liveliness of Pasifika indigenous revival, Clarinda grows and evolves her personal business model and teachings from cultural wisdom about health, abundance and sustainability. Returning to the values and practices of many indigenous cultures in regards to land, economics, society and politics, Clarinda works actively to separate capitalism and colonialism from business, and has faith that this is being done in the growing, thriving collective movement to decolonize business.
 

f you are new to this podcast, my name is Jamee Pineda.  I use he/him pronouns and I am a queer, nonbinary trans person and My ancestors are Tagalog and Chinoy.  I am also a practitioner of hilot and Chinese medicine.  I practice in person at Fruit Camp in Baltimore, MD as well as virtually.  Now let’s get on with our show. 

Clarinda nice of you to join us today. I am so excited to talk with you. So for folks who don't know, I've worked with Clarinda in the past, through Matriarchal Business, and I'm so inspired by her work, and I'm so excited that she's here to talk with us today. One of the things that really inspired me to reach out to her is because in Hilot, which is traditional Filipino medicine, one of the ways that we think about health is financial health, and, you know, pre capitalism, this would have been the health of our resources, our relationship to abundance. And this is so much a part of what Clarinda does for work, but also just so much a part of how she navigates the world. So I just wanted to talk with her and share some of her views with everyone. So how are you feeling today?

Clarinda Tivoli  
I'm good. I'm good. Thanks, Jamee. I'm really, yeah, quite honored to be invited to speak on your podcast. This is exciting.

Jamee Pineda  
So my first question for you is, well, you're not a healthcare practitioner. But your work often attracts folks who do healing work. So what is it like working with healers on their businesses? I'm one of those people. I also know that the other folks who were in my cohort, we're also among that group of people. So I'm curious about that.

Clarinda Tivoli
That is such a good question. Um, I feel like there's a few different layers to that. I, I'm curious, I have my theories about that, but you're a healthcare practitioner, and you were drawn to the work. So what do you think that is? Because I, there have been healthcare practitioners have always been attracted to the work, whether in you know, there's been this kind of more recent iteration of my work over the past maybe three to four years, which has been very much consciously intentionally rooted in indigenous matriarchal kinds of frameworks and in within decolonizing frameworks. And, you know, there have certainly been healthcare practitioners attracted to the work in In this iteration, but it's always been that way. So for those listening who aren't familiar with my work in my previous, I'll say my past life career of sorts, you know, being a speaker trainer and working with platform sales speakers. I was also then still attracting a lot of healthcare practitioners. And I can't I don't know that I can necessarily answer exactly why that is. I have a theory. But what, what do you think that is? Because you are one of those people.

Jamee Pineda  
So I heard about your work through my buddy, Julz, who heard about your work, from just being local to Hawaii. 

Clarinda Tivoli  
Yeah. Right. 

Jamee Pineda  
And, oh, my dog is dreaming right now. She's making dreams sounds in the background, yeah. Who knows what she's chasing. So I was attracted to your work because for me, doing healing work is so much of a calling around healing wounds from colonization for myself and for my community, wounds from patriarchy, wounds from, you know, capitalism and all these other kinds of -isms that are all interconnected. So it was important for me to figure out how to run a practice, within the context of living in a capitalist society in a way that didn't harm me too, and didn't harm the people that I was wanting to reach out to. And it's more than just do no harm, right? Like that. It's like, yeah, we want to do more than that. We want to actually have abundance for ourselves, have ease, have joy. And so that was very apparent in in the values that your your content was projecting. Because I had followed you for a little bit on on social media before I reached out to you to set up a consultation, and eventually join one of the cohorts. So for Yeah, like, for me, it was like, I have to have those values integrated into every part of my practice. Every part of my practice has a potential to be medicine to myself, and therefore also medicine to my community. So for me, it was very intentional. And also I'm like, I don't really, I don't really like partnering with a lot of white folks. Because it's it's really, it's, it takes a lot of energy to just work with good intentions and nice people. It's like, those are all nice things, but I'm not looking for nice.

Clarinda Tivoli  
Yep. Yeah. I hear it. Yeah, not looking for nice, and you're not just looking to do no harm.  I really hear that. Okay. Thank you for that. Yeah, that's kind of Yeah, you're you're answering the question. I think. It's not for me, it's for me, it's theory, I mean, I don't know, I don't know that I necessarily asked that question of it. You know, that's the very, I just, I think that's such a beautiful question. Because, yeah,

Clarinda Tivoli  
you You're right. There are a lot of healthcare practitioners who come to the work. It's attractive, it has always been attractive to hear this. Okay. So my theory is...Well, I think one of them is at Well, I think it's very much in line with what you've said, even before the work was more intentionally, you know, this kind of decolonizing framework. It was always about healing through story, you know, story was such a big part of it, it was about you know, becoming, even though it was about you know "platform sales speaking", the way that I talked about it, which made it so unique in a very scripted, orchestrated, do this sales script, and that will bring X amount of your convert this amount that here's the formula and, you know, the work that I brought up was kind of this breath of fresh air in the industry was, you know, you don't need any of that and you can actually be yourself and You can actually stand up and tell your story and, you know, use your voice in your unique way you do not need a script. Um, yeah, get up and tell your story and that in, in and of itself is such a healing process to do for yourself. So even to prepare for that, to be ready to share a message, to be able to "market yourself" or market a product or a business or concept or whatever, whatever it is that you're wanting to move people on with.  There needs to be some elements of, of healing  or of evolution, whether they're conscious about it or not, you know?I've often had folks over the years become, I'm not sure blocked is the word, stuck in this, they would think they would see the path forward and go, Okay, I just need to do this, I just need to craft, you know, unpack my story, follow Clarinda's process, answer these questions, everything will come out, and then I can kind of put it in this kind of order and present it to people. And then all kinds of hidden, unconscious obstacles, internal conflicts would arise. And all of a sudden, they're either completely stopping what they're doing, or they're pivoting or, you know, so it was always -  the work was always transformational. It was always a healing journey of some kind, whether people were prepared, or whether I advertised it is that, you know, that kind of transformation happens regardless. So and then, you know, and then even more so in recent years. So I, I think healers are more I don't know, maybe perhaps more equipped to take on that process, are have an awareness of their own healing journey and what is required to be able to be vulnerable to be emotionally available and intelligent and aware. Yeah, it's, it's quite a skill to be able to, to to tell your story to be vulnerable and to heal in public. So So I think there's that element. I think the other element the other part of my theory, is that I have I have healers in my lineage and I do believe that there is a strong resonance there. I think you know, my my mum's mum's mum my granny Mala was a Samoan taulasea, a Samoan healer. And that's the one in my immediate kind of family that I'm knowledgeable of, but I know that it is in the bloodlines, and certainly in the hands and, you know, continues my mum and my Nana, and even as girls me and my sisters were good with our hands. We're good with - we can you know, one of the things you take for granted, but you know, realize meeting other people Oh, not everybody is intuitive with their hands. What's with that? But yeah, we you know, as a family like we can, you know, we can easily tend to feet, calves, you know, get out knots, you know? I think yeah, there's definitely healing in the blood. And I know for me at least increasingly so I'm becoming aware that the work that I'm doing is my own healing out loud as I say, you know, my own healing in public my own. I say this a lot now that's why I'm so passionate about the work now is because it's me advocating for a younger me who was victim to a very abusive, I was gonna say unethical, but it's, it's, it's more than that. It's been, you know, intentionally, harmful, violent business, practice and business norms. That is, you know, it's normalized. been privy to nonconsensual sales and marketing practice and just just normalized...

I don't want to say relationship building because it's not even that it's just interactions in business that are that are very cold and transactional and you know, it's this business is personal. And you know, some very real trauma that I've, you know, experienced in, in, in business being stolen from and having very racist and sexist and elitist attacks and power dynamics not in my favor. Yeah, in business, so I'm so so now I'm really advocating for for little me, you know, in a big way. And it just so happens that a lot of folks are behind that, you know? They also want to protect little me, and the little thems to, you know? And the ends a little, you know, our, our future, our next generations of Yeah, of folks in business, so. Yeah, multilayered? That's such a great question. I, nobody has asked me that. 

Jamee Pineda  
I was so surprised that no one's asked you that, because 

Clarinda Tivoli  
Yeah, no

Jamee Pineda  
Everyone in my cohort was some kind of healing practitioner. And then I remember we did a showcase back in December 2020, December 2020, or something like that?

Clarinda Tivoli  
I think so

Jamee Pineda  
And almost everyone, there was also a healer, 

Clarinda Tivoli  
Right? 

Jamee Pineda  
And, yeah, it's fascinating. I've been in other business groups, that are also anti capitalist, and have more of an analysis around social justice and things like that. And they have healers in their group, but then they also have a lot of other professions represented, like people who do some kind of manufacturing or other kinds of services. And it just was, so it was just like, so clear to me that you're attracting a certain type of calling. 

Clarinda Tivoli  
Yeah. 

Jamee Pineda  
To your work. 

Clarinda Tivoli  
Yeah. Because I don't, I don't speak specifically to healers, at least I don't think that I do. 

Jamee Pineda  
Exactly. Yeah. 

Clarinda Tivoli  
And I and I really feel like no, this is work that applies to you know, and I've worked with a lot of it's not, it's not that I've only worked with healers, but it's just majority. So I have worked with a lot of different folks in, you know, different services and selling different products. But yeah, it's just seems to be so focused. And I think it's one of those things that is read in between the lines, it's a resonance thing, it's a thing that speaks - I used to talk about, I don't talk about it much anymore, but about audience science and the kind of biology of the things the things unspoken and how we connect with each other without, you know, the, the major part of us that is communicates, like over 90% of our communication is nonverbal, you know, or not in the words that we're using to communicate. So all of those other things are saying like, I'm a healer, you're a healer, we get it. Like there's a there's an alignment there. Yeah. Anyway, super interesting.

Jamee Pineda  
Very, very interesting. So I want to circle back to you mentioned some of the healing work that you have done for yourself and how that has influenced your business work? Do you want to expand on that a little bit? And maybe share some of it? 

Clarinda Tivoli  
Um...

Jamee Pineda  
You don't have to, by the way, if you don't want to. 

Clarinda Tivoli  
Yeah, like, we definitely do not have time. For the whole I mean, like, I have my journal here, we could go through some interesting...no, like, yeah, the work is definitely me advocating for, for little me. And sometimes. I feel like sometimes it's difficult for me to discern how much of my personal healing journey I share, you know, in relation to the work, because so much of it is relevant. And I think that that's because in talking about decolonizing business, obviously, when it's not just about business, you add decolonizing to that, and that's an entire revolution of models of life and systems and the whole way that we operate so that means me talking about how that affects me personally, in with the intersectional identities that I have as an indigenous person, as someone who has been displaced from lands, have you know experienced erasure of culture and language and all that kind of thing. So, my healing and my growth is relevant to that because it's political. Because unfortunately, it just is. So, yeah, I think that's kind of why lately I'm sharing a ton of sailing videos.

Jamee Pineda  
I was just gonna ask you to bring that up

Clarinda Tivoli  
Yeah

Jamee Pineda  
Let's talk about your sailing.

Clarinda Tivoli  
Yeah, yeah, that's that's definitely a part of it. Because I'm like, How much do this do I really it's kind of a very personal thing that I'm you know, enjoying right now. But it is really friggin liberatory and I've had people tell me too they're like you're sailing videos are the best thing like the thing that I love most on the internet right now. And I think that that's just because people you know, folks right now really enjoy seeing - we're enjoying seeing each other's liberation in whatever iteration or manifestation that's coming in. And that's just a real point of pleasure for me right now. So yeah. 

Jamee Pineda  
Yes, certainly.  I get compersion watching you sail. 

Clarinda Tivoli  
Yay!  I love that!

Jamee Pineda  
I'm nowhere near the Pacific Ocean right now. Which makes me sad. I love the Pacific Ocean. But yeah, like, I think there's something like ancestral, at least for me that like tugs to be like, oh, yeah, we are of the water of this specific water. 

Clarinda Tivoli  
Yes. 

Jamee Pineda  
Even though I have no idea how to sail. It still-

Clarinda Tivoli  
Yep.

Jamee Pineda  
There's some there's like an element of it. That calls.

Clarinda Tivoli  
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. No, and it's so weird. It's not something that necessarily called, like the, the art the actual doing the practice of sailing was not something that ever called to me. But it was the ocean that did before I actually got into any sailing. Um, yeah, it's kind of weird. How it, how it came about. It was one of those circumstances where it was the ancestors brought it to me. I was not looking for sailing, there was just a certain opportunity that kind of popped up and I was like, Well, okay, why not, I'll learn? And I did. And now it's just a whole lifestyle. Yeah, but it's just I don't even put into words. What it is to me. Um,

Jamee Pineda  
you might not be able to. I mean-

Clarinda Tivoli  
yeah! 

Jamee Pineda  
There is something about just from the outside witnessing a Pacific Islander, a brown woman, go out in the ocean and just have pleasure. Yeah, don't do it for anybody but yourself.

Clarinda Tivoli  
Yeah. Yeah. And, um, something that that sticks out to me when I'm out there as well. What you know, usually I'm just out there and and I'm just in my zone. And then every now and then I get kind of woken up to the fact that holy shit, like I'm taking up space out here. Where, when I look around, the only other people who are taking space out here are people who have access to it, which are white folks. Um, so yeah, that always kind of interrupts my, my joy my zone out there when I realized how political it is just me being out there. How liberatory I guess it is to be out there. Where I sail, one of the places that I sail that I have easy access to, is called Puʻuloa which is known as Pearl Harbor. Which is both beautiful and horrid because of its history. Very, very polluted. Water, you can't, you know, they there's always signs everywhere about fishing and not eating the shellfish or anything like that. I think it's the USS Arizona that's in there that leaks like several gallons of fuel a day, and will do so for something like 500 years or something, it's just not going to stop. So. And from what I understand, Puʻuloa, that area, we used to be the breadbasket for Hawaiians. And yeah, now you just cannot fish. But a bunch of white people can sail. You know? A bunch of white folks can enjoy the waters can enjoy this access. The marina I sail at is called Rainbow Bay Marina. So they're enjoying the beautiful view of the rainbows and the mountains. And you go out there and yeah, and almost every time I'm the only one who looks like me out there. So yeah, what kind of began, it's just like, pure pleasure is also you know, every now and then I wake up to, like, I'm out there, I'm in the zone. And then, you know, some fighter jets go up overhead, or, you know, I look around and there's just, you know, a bunch of very, you know, privileged, you know, a boat full of, you know, very privileged, young folks who are blasting hip hop, you know, motorboating across the water and their friends on jetski have on that water skis and screaming and, you know, over waters where there are dead bodies under us, you know? It's interesting, you know, it's interesting, finding pleasure and joy in a space like that. Yeah, I'm still navigating that one, you know, like, every time I'm out there, it's every time I capsize which in the small boats, so I sell a lot of different boats. Some of like one person, little lasers or toppers or el toros, little one person sailboats where they're very, you know, they're super fun, because you do capsize a lot, you know, you fall in the water, and then you flip the boat over, you get back in. But every time I fall on the water, I just, I'm a very, I'm very sensitive to those things, knowing the history of the place and knowing, you know, the bodies in the water, and I feel it. Every time I'm in the water, or there's a particular place in the harbor where I cross over that I just, honestly, my boat starts to just make noises and places it doesn't usually, you know, and I just I just I sense things. Anyway, and so, yeah.

Jamee Pineda  
It literally sounds like you're, you're sailing between worlds that you're navigating a lot of liminal space.

Clarinda Tivoli  
Yes. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, so still, you know, still navigating that one. But it's not it's not something that I want to block out in any way. You know, I don't want to be out there like, No, I'm just going to enjoy myself. No, I think that's that's the deeper the deeper work, right? To be conscious of all of that, and to still find liberation-

Jamee Pineda  
Yeah

Clarinda Tivoli  
with knowledge of all of that, you know, I don't know, I'm still figuring that one out.

Jamee Pineda  
It sounds like the differences like using pleasure as a distraction, or using it as a connection to something much deeper, which you know, like, pleasure as distraction is not necessarily a bad thing. 

Clarinda Tivoli  
Right, yes

Jamee Pineda  
but yeah, like I'm just I'm just hearing like your story about this is I'm seeing pleasure being it's like a gateway to a lot of different perceptions. If you want to go there. 

Clarinda Tivoli  
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. It's a rich journey. 

Jamee Pineda  
So I am wondering who you want to this is a little bit of a segue. But each episode we do a community shout out to folks, folks of the global majority aka bipoc to get them some visibility and redistribute resources to and I want to know who you want to shout out. 

Clarinda Tivoli  
Hmmm...Yes. This is this everybody, everybody in each community

Jamee Pineda  
Everybody gets resources!

Clarinda Tivoli  
Everybody, right? That's the ideal. That's what we want. But I, um, I'll go ahead and shout out Timaima Clawson.  Tima is a friend of mine who I met in Fijian language class, na vosa vakaviti classes. And she came, she lives in Utah, she visited me a few weeks ago and got to talking about her work. She's actually going to be participating in the Matriarchal Business University, the decolonizing business unit in the fall, and she has just started a nonprofit in Utah.  She has been very involved in a lot of other nonprofits. This nonprofit that she's beginning that she's being mentored to start she it wasn't necessarily her idea to do it. But everyone's been encouraging her to, to do this. It's a it's a nonprofit, focusing on Pacific Islander women's health in the Utah area.  She shared some really scary stats with me just in general in the States, I think it was that out of, what was it, mortality rates for for pregnant people in the US out of 100 of those 11 are ours, 11 are Pacific Islanders, which was yeah, pretty shocking to me, considering why we're much less, but we're a much smaller amount of the population in the US. So her work caters to pregnant pregnant women, pregnant folks, and just women's health in general, in the Utah region, and she does a lot of on the ground kind of work, education. And she was really it was amazing learning from her about nonprofits in Utah, who. So there's a ton of funding by the state being made available for, quote unquote, Native Hawaiian and Pacific Islander, you know, causes or nonprofits, and that funding was just going to basically anyone who put that term Native Hawaiian or Pacific Islander in their, you know, proposals for funding, whether or not they were actually doing that work was a questionable thing. 

Jamee Pineda  
No!

Clarinda Tivoli  
Yeah, yeah. Hence, she was being mentored, like you need the funding is there it's going to all the wrong places, you need to actually be a recipient of this funding and do the work because you're already doing the work without the funding. And, yeah, and looking after undocumented folks in particular, and that whole fear barrier around, you know, yeah, the medical system and all of that, so, yeah, she's just she's super amazing what she's doing and she's just starting, she has something like 20 followers on IG. So definitely want to prop up Tima.

Jamee Pineda  
What's her IG handle?

Clarinda Tivoli  
Yeah, it's @embrace801, Embrace, E-M-B-R-A-C-E 801. 

Jamee Pineda  
Thank you. 

Clarinda Tivoli  
Yeah. So her nonprofit is looks after Native Hawaiian and Pacific Islanders' women's health. Yeah. So that's Tima. She's Fijian. Yeah, from Bua and Macuata. Yeah. 

Jamee Pineda  
Okay. Yeah.  So you mentioned the Matriarchal Business University. Would you like to plug that really quickly?

Clarinda Tivoli  
No, yeah. So right now I have a, a unit of study, Decolonizing Business. This is an eight week unit under the Matriarchal Business University, which I envision would have many more units through the years as we grow things, but for right now we just have this kind of one-on-one Decolonizing Business unit. It's an eight week long course. Yeah, we've got folks just about to start in about 10 days to start our first week, through the summer, and then we have another fall unit, going August through October. And then we'll likely have some more units come out in 2023. But yeah, any if anyone wants any information about that you can either follow my IG @Clarindatusitala. Or go to the matriarchalbusiness.com. And the best thing to do there is to opt in to the notification email list. And then you'll get all of the updates with enrollment and application windows and all of that.

Jamee Pineda  
I highly recommend if you're listening to check out Clarinda's content. If you run a business or self employed, I highly, highly recommend it's a super transformative process. And I would say that the curriculum doesn't just end up the curriculum, because Clarinda I've appreciated that you've built a whole community network out of the folks who are either supporting your work or who have been learning from you by being in your cohort. So I'm still engaged in it, even though it's been over a year since I was actually in one of the classes with you. So that's-

Clarinda Tivoli  
Yeah, that's really nice, yeah. 

Jamee Pineda  
Yeah, it's not just you do it, and then you're dropped.

Clarinda Tivoli  
Yeah, that's one of my favorite things. I'm super proud that, yeah, I'm super proud that we've kind of created that environment. And that folks are still coming back for the random discussion that we have or COVID sessions. So it's just nice to know that this, I think that this space is held, even for folks who aren't necessarily around all the time, or super present. Every now and then I get messages like, Thanks, you know, I see the notifications and I'm just super glad there's this space because we need to know that we're not we're really not in as much isolation as we think we actually are all experiencing the same conflicts and battles that did that daily navigation of how we you know, when we're doing our books, and then thinking of, well, how we how we still decolonizing within this current tax formation of my business. So it's a whole thing that we need to it's a it's a practice. Like I said, it doesn't end at the curriculum. It's it's an ongoing practice, so we need to continue to be engaged in it.

Jamee Pineda  
Before I let you go, do you have any words of wisdom or advice that you would like to share with our listeners?

Clarinda Tivoli  
Oh, my gosh, just

Jamee Pineda  
Or even questions honestly

Clarinda Tivoli  
No, nothing. I don't want to add No, no extra like nothing to think about nothing.  Nothing to labor on. So just we all have enough. Like, go and eat some really good foods. Like did you drink some water? Go get a glass of water. You know, have you breathe deeply today? Like if you thought about your breath today? Just yeah, just just do the good things. Feel good. Please look after yourselves. And my goodness, we're losing so many good people. Yeah, just stay safe. Everyone. Look after yourselves. That's it. That's my wisdom today.

Drink some water. Be nice to yourself. 

Yeah, yes. Yes. Be kind to yourselves.

Jamee Pineda  
Alright, thank you so much. Clarinda. I'm so happy that we had we got to have this conversation. I know we don't get to connect one on one all the time because we we live across so many time zones. But yeah, it's been lovely.

Clarinda Tivoli  
Appreciate it. I appreciate you. I appreciate your questions, your line of thought the work that you do, the community work that you do, commitment to your own development and your own healing, just your practice - I'm in admiration. So

Jamee Pineda  
Thank you thank you

The next zine for the five phase series is now complete. It is the earth zine. I'm releasing it today as of the release of this episode of The Decolonizing Medicine Podcast. So that is available for virtual download on my website and my next QTBIPOC Qi Gong course is going to be this fall. I highly suggest signing up for my newsletter so that you can get exact dates and sign up information, again that is also on my website. That's Jamee-pineda-lac.com. And Jamee is spelled J-A-M-E-E. For those of you who come to see me in person for treatments, and for in person services, I wanted to let you all know that I am keeping tabs on what's happening with monkey pox and COVID as far as keeping myself safe and keeping my patients safe. So you'll see some updates around the clinic space. For example, I now have little plastic boxes where people can put their stuff so that I can disinfect around the area a little bit easier. I moved out one of our plushy squishy blue chairs that's covered in fabric so that I can use a wooden chair that's a hard surface that I can more easily disinfect. And there's probably going to be more updates here and there as we learn more about this disease again, be be on my newsletter, check my website regularly for more updates on that.

Maraming salamat for listening to The Decolonizing Medicine Podcast. If you want to support this work via Patreon or to apply to be a guest on the show. Go to JAMEE-PINEDA-LAC.com again Jamee is spelled J A M E E and my last name P I N E D A. Music is by Amber Ojeda, Hedkandi. and Rocky Marciano. Big thanks to  Cuán McCann for audio engineering all of these episodes. And I also wanted to do a quick shout out to Cuán's latest endeavor which is on Instagram and it's @bmorebata B E M O R E B A T A.  He is starting to teach Irish stick fighting. It's really awesome. It's super queer, super trans. So please go check that out. Last but not least, thank you to all our listeners and supporters out there.