Sacred not Alternative with Rev Zionarrah

[The Decolonizing Medicine Podcast S02E14.  Original release date July 13, 2022.]

Jamee Pineda  
Mabuhay, this is the second season of The Decolonizing Medicine Podcast. My guest today is Reverend Priestess Zionarrah, H.O.E.listic health coach. That's H-O-E as in heaven on earth. Reverend is an ordained minister, founder of Taste and See Heaven on Earth Ministries, ancestral medicine keeper and holistic health coach and educator bringing heaven to earth by honoring heaven within, educating at the intersection between science spirit, sex and sensuality. Their practice centers Afro indigenous pleasure based holistic healing and expressive artistry through the activation of ancestral cellular DNA with mystical nourishment, sex illogical shamanism, creation, and play. They specialize in holistic functional nutrition, intuitive somatic bodywork, hypnotherapy, sacred sexuality, and an original channeled energy medicine modality called vocal toning energy massage. The hoelistic health coach integrates modern access with ancient ancestral mystical traditions. If you are new to this podcast, my name is Jamee Pineda. I use he him pronouns, and I am a queer, non binary trans person. And my ancestors are Tagalog and Chinoy. I am also a practitioner of Hilot and Chinese medicine. I practice in person at Fruit Camp in Baltimore, Maryland, as well as virtually now let's get on with our show.

Jamee Pineda  
Reverend Zionarrah, welcome to The Decolonizing Medicine Podcast, I am so happy that you're here.

Rev Zionarrah  
Thank you, I'm happy to be here. Thanks for having me.

Jamee Pineda  
We first met what like a back in February in a class where we spent several weeks together. And we were just, you know, talking in our pre recording chat about how we haven't actually talked that much about the work that we're doing or talking about other topics during this class. So I'm just so thrilled and excited to hear about your work.

Rev Zionarrah  
Hey, thank you. Yes, so I do a lot of things. But essentially, sorry, I consider it to be like, a modern or Western, I don't know, like, version of, you know, ancestral medicine keeping. And so it's, it's medicinal work. And its artistic and creative work. There's a strong route or connection, you know, to sacred sexuality practices that I use in my health practice. So I am the HOElisteic health coach. And it's spelled H O E, to be like a play on hoe, but it's also heaven on earth. And that was very intentional, that the sacred sexuality is at the root of what I'm doing with the health coaching, that it's that they're intertwined in there together. And really, essentially, as I've, you know, continued to do this for a few years, realized that the root of people's health issues is very similar to how sacred sexuality practices address. When there are obstructions in the flow of energy, and individual, they manifest those issues manifest exactly the same way. So what I'm doing a health coaching session specifically, or I'm just doing energy work, which is those are the two things that I mainly do for clients specifically. I am looking at where there are obstructions in someone's energy body and how that is manifesting in issues in their health. And so we do an assessment where I ask all the health questions, and I use my own interpretation of the bio psycho social spiritual model, which makes it the bio psycho social sexual model, sexual spiritual model. And, and then we do an energy scan and healing session as a part of the health coaching session, as well,

Jamee Pineda  
That's so dense. 

Rev Zionarrah  
Yeah, it is.

Jamee Pineda  
There's so many different layers coming into working with you. I, I would love to hear more about how you are blending Art and Healing.  So what does that look like?

Rev Zionarrah  
Yeah, um, so I grew up singing, like every year that they offered choir in school. And so that was since I was, I don't know, like a very young child. And even before that, I was singing all the time. And so I am a multi dimensional multidisciplinary artist, and I do many disciplines, but singing has been the the main form of medicine for myself, as well as my like, primary creative outlet. And over time, I realized that I was using it medicinally for myself. I would like if I felt certain things going on in my body, I just intuitively will start humming, or chanting or singing like even as a child. And when I was in school, I in high school, I went to a Visual and Performing Arts Academy. And I loved it. And I love performing. But what I realized is like, the reason why I loved it was because it was so healing for me. And it was having that creative outlet was also therapeutic at the same time. So it was therapeutic to express myself. But I also realized that it was therapeutic to like, feel the vibrations of my voice and my body and sort of move energy around doing that. And then I realized that I can do this for other people. So then I just started practicing. I practiced on our teacher, Joy from the class, I practiced on a lot of people. And so the same way that like, in hypnotherapy, essentially, you're going into a trance state. They've done like the studies that show when people are deep into their their art, their creative, whatever that is, whether they're writing, or they're painting, or they're singing or dancing, the same, like trance state that's being activated. And so what I'm doing in the energy healing is kind of doing a combination of both of those things. And it's channeling, but I'm, I'm using my voice to do that, that energy healing to do that sound healing, the same way that I would move things in my own body. That way, I will do that for the client. And it is very hard to explain, but that's the best that I probably have. But yeah, that's kind of where they bridge together. Yeah.

Jamee Pineda  
So what you're saying is people should sign up for a session with you to experience it.

Rev Zionarrah  
Yeah, that's really it's like, you kind of have to experience it to really get it. And I also realized, too, that I have to have when I put that when I first put this out there had to have a vetting process so that only like really spiritual practitioners can get access to it because it's so dense. And you don't just want to throw somebody into the deep end because it's a very intense experience. And I don't I I've been hesitant to use the word Shaman. But then I got a session from someone and they were like, this is very deep shamanic work. And I was like, well, if somebody else says it, then I'll say that because I do think that it is much easier way to explain that that is essentially what's happening. It's very, sometimes it is just I'm just in someone's energy body and moving around and helping them to release whatever they need to release or shift whatever needs to be shifted. But there have been times where I've gone on whole ancestral journeys with people's ancestors traveled back to their home dimensions, crazy shit. I don't just want to do that for, or attempt to do that, for someone who's not already kind of in that realm.  

Jamee Pineda  
Totally.

Rev Zionarrah  
I just need to be responsible with it. So-

Jamee Pineda  
There's some requisites, and that's okay. 

Rev Zionarrah  
Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Jamee Pineda  
Absolutely. I mean, if you're not ready, you don't need to go on that journey. 

Rev Zionarrah  
Yeah, for sure. 

Jamee Pineda  
So what? So you talked a little bit about how you how you came into it, but what focused you on wanting to bring this as healing, like a healing modality to other people? Because you could have just, you know, you could have just kept it to yourself or kept it really small, but you're like, Okay, this is becoming an offering to a greater audience.

Rev Zionarrah  
Hmm. I don't know, I think I am very curious about things. And I was just like, I need to see how this interacts with other people. And if it has this impact on me, then I'm sure it will be helpful to other people. There's always in the city where I'm from, and I feel like also just in the spiritual community, in general at large, like this sort of inclination to like go get a Reiki certification. And I don't feel like most people's, whatever they're calling Reiki is actually Reiki. Um, which is fine. But it did not calling it that, you know, I think it's like, it's become a catch all term for energy medicine. And I wish more people would just honor it. Like, no, this is energy medicine, but I don't think it's Reiki. And so that kind of made me like, want to stay away from that altogether. I have studied it, but I haven't, you know, sought or gotten a formal education or formal training in it. And then actually, I had tried to, and, like, so many things happened ancestrally and long story short is that it just didn't feel right for me. The way that I guess it was being brought to me. And that on its own actually, like really pushed my curiosity of like, oh, everyone is sharing energy medicine. Let's explore that some. And then the part that happened after that was like, I got my start and all of this in terms of actually working one on one with people through massage school. And I started doing student massages for donations with like, friends and family. But when I was in school, that's when the the energy medicine that was coming through my hands activated. Um, and people would ask me, Well, are you are you doing Reiki? And I was like, I don't know. Like, I don't know what I'm doing. And that so that's, that's really want to start it to be like, Okay, this is this is something that I'm already giving to people through the massage. So I want to explore this more. And then and then it was like, I'm in school when everyone around me is like Reiki, Reiki, Reiki, and then I get out of school, everyone online. It's like Reiki, Reiki, Reiki, and it's like, okay, clearly people want energy medicine, and this, whatever this is, is activated for me. And I want to play with it. And so I took I took a few years to play with it and experiment, like just working with myself. And then it was like, when I'm doing health coaching assessments, when I'm doing nutrition assessment, which I was doing for this whole time, towards the tail end of being in massage school, I realized that I was doing even in those sessions I'm doing energy work trying to tap into like, Okay, well what's really going on intuitively with this person? And then learn that like that's a field literally called medical intuition. And so it all just sort of over time this all like mushed together. Like Well, I'm here doing the health coaching assessment. I'm doing some type of intuitive energy work right now. I've done massage, kind of taking a break with massage, but I'm still doing this energy work. That's, you know, through the hands, and then the singing modality. It all just, over time, just glide opposite together. And so it was like, well, I might as well do this in a client session, if I'm already doing sessions with clients anyway. So whether it was a massage session or the health coaching session, I realized that energetically I'm doing the same thing. Because I want to understand the route of whatever it is whether they they're having, like joint mobility problems, or they're having like, high blood pressure, like I'm using the same sort of mechanisms to understand what's going on with them on a deeper level.

Jamee Pineda  
And you don't have to call it Reiki.

Rev Zionarrah  
Yeah, yeah.

Jamee Pineda  
It's all it's your own your own sensory input that you're getting your own intuition that you're getting. 

Rev Zionarrah  
Yeah. 

Jamee Pineda  
Yeah, I think that well, I have a lot of thoughts on that. But I, there's something weird about the the marketing of Reiki. 

Rev Zionarrah  
Yeah. 

Jamee Pineda  
And using that to kind of brand, whatever. And like, every culture, every person has some kind of energy medicine accessible to them. 

Rev Zionarrah  
Yeah. 

Jamee Pineda  
So it's, it's just really cool to hear that you've been in touch with these gifts. And it's it's just like, no matter what you do, you're automatically healing people. 

Rev Zionarrah  
Yeah, 

Jamee Pineda  
Which I think is really rad. 

Rev Zionarrah  
Same.

Jamee Pineda  
Which brings me to my next question. And it's, it's about the term "alternative medicine". I'm curious what your thoughts are on that term, and especially as it pertains to medicines from people of the global majority, aka BIPOC.

Rev Zionarrah  
Yeah. Yeah. It's hilarious. It's disrespectful. It's racist. It's insulting, and it's just incorrect. It's funny, because allopathic conventional medicine and the timeline of medicine is extremely new. And so the idea that things that are not that should be called alternative just literally doesn't make sense. Like, by the definition of what an alternate is, new would be secondary.

Jamee Pineda  
I 1,000% agree with that. Chinese medicine is like 5000 years old or whatever? 

Rev Zionarrah  
Yeah

Jamee Pineda  
Every community in the world has some kind of herbalism because we all are near some kind of plant. 

Rev Zionarrah  
Yeah.

Jamee Pineda  
 And we all have energy. 

Rev Zionarrah  
Yes. Yeah.

Jamee Pineda  
 It's just like, blows my mind that that is the alternative.

Rev Zionarrah  
Like if, if what we're doing doesn't work, you can go back to what people have been doing way before this. But we don't know if it works. 

Jamee Pineda  
Right?

Rev Zionarrah  
And like, I was in massage school, and we had a class called Jin Shin Do. And which, for people who may not know is the acupressure version of acupuncture. Which we were taught a little bit of, to integrate into our massage. But we weren't taught actual acupressure. Anyway. So it was a cool class, but it was taught by a Caucasian woman, she was very lovely. But she-

Jamee Pineda  
There's so many nice white people

Rev Zionarrah  
Yes!  Oh my god.  like that, you know, god bless her you know, she played a documentary for us. And it was, Oh, God. I just I wanted to scream the whole time because it was about a white man. It was from like, the 80s was hilarious. You know, it's got like the 80s dad jeans on he's, he's like, I'm leaving America. I'm going to China because I want to learn about Chinese medicine. I want to see if it's legitimate or not. So he's got you know, his, whatever metrics of legitimacy he's packed in his suitcase, and he's decided he's gonna go investigate. 

Jamee Pineda  
He's an explorer.

Rev Zionarrah  
He's an explorer.

Jamee Pineda  
Oh no!

Rev Zionarrah  
It was maddening to me, because they're literally like, Yeah, this is 5000 years old, but we're not sure if it works or not. And people they're there and they're doing it and they're talking about like the grandmas in the park and they're doing stuff and they're like, this whole culture, they believe in this and and he's like, but I'm still skeptical. And I just I was like, why are you showing us this this.  I don't even see the benefit of it. Like, I would rather watch a documentary that's like, on how this modality how this tradition how this actually works. Um, but that wasn't what it was, it was entirely this western scope of this medicine. That's, I'm gonna say more controversial. But that's older than conventional allopathic medicine, with this incredibly disrespectful type of skepticism, which is different than saying, I don't understand this, I am not in the culture that would give me the context to understand this. You know, it was just like, well, I don't get it so it must be wrong. But I think she thought it was good for us to see him in the end, sort of kind of halfway validate it, like thinking it's, oh, it's the merging of East and West, but it's but it's never, that's never what's happening. What's happening is like, white people going, Hey, that we've given this this seal of approval. And that is what the term alternative medicine feels like to me. Now, as far as white people are concerned, if herbalism is the second place that they go, like Western herbalism is the second place that they go or European herbalism that's fine. You don't need to insert yourself into things that are not familiar to you, if you don't want to, you know, like, that's, that's fine. But it's still the overall ideal that it's secondary. And that exclusively comes from racism, this idea that people of color cannot create something that is independently valid without the acknowledgement of white people of the west of colonizer perspective, and its supervisory. It's condescending that like, it's, you've been doing this for literally forever, but you need our, we need to make sure that you know how to do this right, you know, in a way that is works with our regulations and our laws. But which we can't do because we don't understand how it works in the first place. And we're terrible at regulating our own shit. Yeah, like, the massage therapy board here is a mess. Tragic. So I could go on literally forever, but that.

Jamee Pineda  
I mean, it's, it's a pet peeve for me too, because I feel like I get the most pushback from white folks who want to ask, Well, does it work? Does acupuncture work? Does hilot work? And I'm like, no, no, no, no, you have it backwards. I'm not auditioning and trying to prove anything to you. If you want to work with me, you need to prove that you're gonna come like you're gonna come respectful over to to my medicine. And then maybe we can talk about it. 

Rev Zionarrah  
Right? 

Jamee Pineda  
But I'm not here for you

Rev Zionarrah  
No.  And your, your understanding or your acceptance of it is not necessary. Your opinion is not necessary even knowing what the fuck this is, is not necessary. 

Jamee Pineda  
exactly 

Rev Zionarrah  
For it to be valid. We've been doing it before we even knew y'all were here. 

Jamee Pineda  
Right.

Rev Zionarrah  
You're new, not me.

Jamee Pineda  
And then you try to take it and then you do weird stuff with it.

Rev Zionarrah  
And like for what? Yeah.

Jamee Pineda  
Yeah. 

Rev Zionarrah  
Just ask.  Bring someone in who, you know, this is their medicine and respect it and they that that's the issue is that they they can't have that that we are the authority on anything. Even our own shit.

Jamee Pineda  
Exactly.

Rev Zionarrah  
"Alternative" - throw that word away

Jamee Pineda  
It's there is no alternative medicine. 

Rev Zionarrah  
No!

Jamee Pineda  
Or it's not yours. 

Rev Zionarrah  
Right.  That it.  That's the tagline.

Jamee Pineda  
If it's not yours, you get invited into it. 

Rev Zionarrah  
Right yeah, yeah. 

Jamee Pineda  
So this leads me to my next question very nicely. What have you witnessed from yourself and others as modern medicine keepers emerging in post colonial generations. So, like, one of the observations I've had, especially during pandemic times, is like, I'm seeing a lot of folks of color, especially queer and trans folks of color, like, getting into their ancestral medicine, like really getting into their ancestral connections and like searching deeper. Some of them going towards being practitioners, some of them just like, you know, focusing on their own healing and community healing. But yeah, like, what, what have you observed?

Rev Zionarrah  
Oh, we tend to be the "black sheep of the family". It's very often. 

Jamee Pineda  
Oh, yeah, we're weirdos. 

Rev Zionarrah  
Yeah, yeah. Because because we're tapped in, and they're the very painful process of realizing that your family is mentally more deeply colonized than you are, because none of us are totally, fully out of the matrix. 

Jamee Pineda  
We're affected, all of us.

Rev Zionarrah  
Right, right. So you know, that and even, even if they're like, Okay, you're, you know, doing your thing, it's, there's still a sense of distance. Often, so there's that so especially as queer people of color, reconnecting with the ancestral medicine, the the theme of chosen families, is very present, prevalent. And finding spiritual community in the same way of finding other people that are accepting of your whole self. So there's that part. And it's just for me, it's been like, even though I have a very different experience, where my grandmother was Catholic, but also, you know, using tarot cards and crystals, and all of those things from a young age. So I'm really lucky that I was exposed to all that, like for a lot of people right now. It's very new, but like, I always had that around. 

Jamee Pineda  
Can I just say Catholics are some of the witchiest fucking people -

Rev Zionarrah  
Yes, yes!

Jamee Pineda  
-who won't admit that they're the witchiest fucking people.

Rev Zionarrah  
Yes, she didn't fully say witch, but she was very, very aware of, like, there being something that was spiritual outside of the religion, right? And within the religion as well, that was more than what was like on the surface. So being into like, occult, Christianity, the tarot, the crystals, and the rosary beads, and she's doing the prayers three times a day, every day, no exceptions. We're at the pool, at the beach, it doesn't matter. So I saw that. And I was always reading all of these religious books she had. She had a copy of the Quran and a bunch of other spiritual texts. She wasn't exclusive in like, you know, some people are like, well, I don't know what they doing. I just know. But she, she wasn't, you know, she was always very curious about what other people are doing. And we have the same moon sign. So we're, like, extremely similar as we were really close growing up. And so I had that exposure. And so I started out as as a weirdo. Like, people people knew me for being like, like a Jesus freak, but also carrying around an astrology textbook and asking everyone when their birthday was, like, in middle school, in high school. So I kind of was lucky that I had someone to affirm me, but a lot of people don't. Um, like people would, because my grandma was like doing psychic readings. And people were like, She's crazy. No, like, she's fun. You just don't get it. Like, she knows what she's talking about. So, but the patterns I've noticed, it's a lot of suffering, to be honest. Like, when we find each other, it's fun. But before then, and even still, like I have a friend who is almost like so deeply in the other realm, right? In the spiritual realm, and which is not that they're really separate, but it's an easier way to explain that. But it's really, really hard for them to be, you know, in this society, while being really like, should be deep in a bayou somewhere in a wooden like house, just like foraging and hunting everything. And then if people need them, they have to, you know, come down from the mountain and all that to get to like, that's really where they should be. Like, that's how intense that is. And for a lot of us that the struggle is that the gifts don't care that we're in a colonial society, that we're in a totally different system now than our ancestors were. So the gifts are going to come through regardless, the challenge is that we don't have the same protocols in place of having a grandmother and great grandmother, and people in the village that like know, this baby's coming. And these are the gifts we're going to have and being able to prepare them and go through all of those rituals and protocol. Before and during, and after, when they're born like we don't have, most of us don't have access to that. And I, I probably had the closest thing to that through my grandmother, but it still wasn't the same exact thing. And so like being able to have an easeful navigation of life with being so deeply spiritually inclined in the world that is very, the antithesis of that.

Jamee Pineda  
I love how you I really love how you framed that, because to me, that points out how colonization, it destroys the structures of our healthcare systems, of our spiritual care systems. 

Rev Zionarrah  
Yeah. 

Jamee Pineda  
Because it's literally creating environments that are hostile to people who have gifts.

Rev Zionarrah  
Yeah

Jamee Pineda  
To people who are supposed to show up in multiple realities at the same time-

Rev Zionarrah  
yes

Jamee Pineda  
-to access information, access energy, or whatever, because I just like - so I'm autistic and I'm just thinking about how, if you're living in multiple realities and accessing a lot of different planes of existence, that like how stimulating that is. And yeah, like that, that's just a lot. That would be a lot for anyone, regardless of whether or not they're autistic,

Rev Zionarrah  
 Right. 

Jamee Pineda  
It's like thinking like, oh, shit, like, you're, you're looking at multiple layers all the time. Like, constantly, everything's in like 5-D. Yeah. Like, of course, you want to live out in the woods somewhere on the edge of town.

Rev Zionarrah  
 Yeah, yeah!

Jamee Pineda  
It's a lot of input.

Rev Zionarrah  
It's a lot. And that's also the thing that a lot of us are going to be. The translation is going to be a term for Neuro divergence, usually, very often. And without the recognition of there being a spiritual, at least, connection. I would like to say root, but some people may not feel comfortable with that. Whatever resonates connection between the two. Without that knowledge there's no it in the context that our society has this stigma against neurodivergence. There's no positive way to engage with it if you don't know that there's a spiritual reason or a connection or use for it. Like, I got diagnosed with sensory processing disorder, which some people will say is a form of autism, some people will say it's an aspect of autism. But either way, it basically means that I have hyper and hypo responses to sensory input. So like, my brain goes, this is louder than it actually is. Or the volume was much lower than it actually is. And then years later, to discover, oh, I have ancestral roots in a very specific tradition that utilizes the senses to to spiritually connect, right, and perform alchemy in medicine. Oh, well, that makes sense then. And now I have a positive way to engage with it. And not in like a "spirit washing" kind of way. But it's literally like, well, this makes so much more sense than just saying, Something's wrong with you, we don't know what it is go away, right? And it puts into perspective, well if form follows function as is the role in physiology, then my form would facilitate the natural function of these gifts to be so that I am literally physiologically shaped in such a way where I can perform these gifts, like that's what it's for. That's why it's happening. And now I can engage with it so differently. I can use it. Like I know what I need to do. And it's been like all of these years of like, continuing to like tweak this and perfect this mechanism like you would you know, any other mechanical system.

Jamee Pineda  
Any any organism of nature, where it's, that organism is like perfectly suited to what it's suited for. 

Rev Zionarrah  
Yes, yeah.

Jamee Pineda  
We are all like that we just are not always in the environment that we should be in, 

Rev Zionarrah  
Exactly.

Jamee Pineda  
So now it's time for our community shout out. Every episode we do a community shout out to a BIPOC individual or group doing awesome work in our communities. This is an opportunity to uplift them and encourage others to redistribute resources to them. So who would you like to shout out today?

Rev Zionarrah  
Can I do more than one? 

Jamee Pineda  
Yeah, sure.

Rev Zionarrah  
Okay. Okay, so my friend Loretta at Biounes, on Instagram, B-I-O-T-U-N-E-S. She does this really cool thing where she hooks up plants to an EKG. And she makes music with them. It's so cool. She also does ceremonies with coffee and cannabis, and a myriad of other plants. So she's definitely someone to look into and support. And then I'm going to shout out my mentors who are also clients: Rish de Terra. She is just a magical hoodoo practitioner. She's just an overall awesome human being. Her company is called the Nine Minds Radio. It's a podcast, and also just like a community. I don't know community activism, resource power space. I think she just started doing homeschooling as well adding to that, so she's constantly adding new things to that. And she is a filmmaker. She's in the process of making a documentary on hoodoo. So that is a great place to put your money to as well. And then Joy Tabernacle, our teacher,

Jamee Pineda  
We love Joy. 

Rev Zionarrah  
Joy is just - you can't even explain joy. Just pure magic. She's a spiritual life coach. She's a miracle activator and liberator. And she's just fucking brilliant. So if she's doing a class go take it.

Jamee Pineda  
I agree. I second that. So this brings us to our last question of this episode. And it is what wisdom would you like to share for folks who are coming into their own as healers and/or artists?

Rev Zionarrah  
Hmm probably that if you don't feel a little bit insane, you're probably not in alignment with your authenticity. So, like go with that. If you feel if you feel a little bit insane, if you're doubting that what you're doing is real or true, you're probably doing it right. Because whatever it is that you're doing is the antithesis to everything that upholds this paradigm, and everything that is called Real. It just really all illusion.

Jamee Pineda  
You gotta break your reality.

Rev Zionarrah  
You have to break your reality. Exactly. So if you feel like you're not in reality, that means you're in truth. So go with it, keep going with it.

Jamee Pineda  
Thank you so much Rev. I love that. 

Rev Zionarrah  
Thank you for having me. 

Jamee Pineda  
So this is a new thing that I'm doing with my Patreon members, and I'll be announcing folks who joined my Patreon on this show as a big public thank you for all their support. So for this episode we've got Ever Pallas, Danielle Luz Belanger, and Jake Ricafrente. Thank you so much for being part of The Decolonizing Medicine Podcast and for joining my Patreon. For folks who are part of the Patreon those funds go to captioning these episodes to make them a little more accessible, and also to scholarships for QTBIPOC qi gong workshops. And speaking of Qigong workshops, I'll be teaching a QTBIPOC qi gong workshop at the Philadelphia Trans Wellness Conference, which is July 21 through 23rd. This is an all virtual and free conference for folks to attend. The only charges as far as I can tell are if you want to get CEUs through the professional track, and I'll put a link to the conference registration page in the show notes. We are going to have some crossover episodes coming with Rebecca Nunziata of the Decolonize Everything Podcast. She recorded an interview with me back in February so that is now available on the Decolonize Everything Podcast, and I'll be recording with her in early July. That'll probably come out around September or October of this year. Rebecca is awesome. I highly recommend checking out her podcast.  Every time I listened to her something brilliant comes out and I learn something new. The best way to keep up with my work is to join my email newsletter at jamee-pineda-lac.com.

Jamee Pineda  
Maraming salamat for listening to The Decolonizing Medicine Podcast. If you want to support this work via Patreon or apply to be a guest on the show go to linktr.ee/jameepinedahealingarts. Music is by Amber Ojeda, Hed Kandi, and Rocky Marciano. Big thanks to Cuan McCann for audio engineering all the episodes. And last but not least, thank you to all our listeners and supporters out there.  Ingat!