That Which is Most Powerful Inside of Us with Joy Tabernacle KMT

Jamee Pineda  00:15
Hi, I'm Jamee Pineda and this is The  Decolonizing Medicine Podcast. I am a queer non binary trans person and my ancestors are Tagalog and Chinoy.  My healing arts practice is located at Fruitcamp in Baltimore, Maryland. I am so excited for this next next guest because they're absolutely positively luscious. Joy Tabernacle KMT is a hoodoo healer, mother, artist, ceremonial list, spiritual teacher, liberation, mystic and opulence. She is a guide to intense passionate powerful beings that carry big, wild beautiful mojo medicine and magic that requires deep support. Radical witnessing courageous choice and resident resident clarity for expansion and expression. Hi, Joy, welcome to the decolonizing medicine podcast. How are you doing today?

Joy Tabernacle KMT  01:40
I am very excited to be here. Very excited to be talking with you. You know, you know I love you, Jamee. So, yeah,

Jamee Pineda  01:49
we love you too. Where are you by the way?

Joy Tabernacle KMT  01:55
Right now I am in Virginia at a state park. Just sitting in my sitting in my motorhome. So

Jamee Pineda  02:04
it looks really sunny and blue, where you are.

Joy Tabernacle KMT  02:08
It is also really chilly. But the fall colors are giving I wish I could show you but with, oh there

Jamee Pineda  02:16
Oh, yeah. Yes. Yeah, it's cold here in Baltimore, too. I woke up and it was in the 30s. And I was like, I'm not ready. I'm not ready for this amount of cold. But it is what it is.

Joy Tabernacle KMT  02:31
Yeah, I have to travel up to Pennsylvania, tomorrow. And I'm just like, I can't wait to be going south or southwest as soon as possible. Not looking forward to cold temperatures. But you know

Jamee Pineda  02:49
 It will be delicious when you finally get to be in the warm again.

Joy Tabernacle KMT  02:54
In the desert, that's where I want to be. I'm excited for that. I've only been to the desert once and the energy there was amazing. And I can't wait to go back and just be there for a while.

Jamee Pineda  03:09
I'm like, I have such compassion for that I am looking forward to you being there as well. And what that feels like in your body and what that feels like energetically. I grew up in Southern California so that like warm dry heat is very much my thing. I like it. So I generally write down questions for folks, whenever we do an interview for the podcast to kind of guide what we talk about, but I You're the first person where I'm taking like direct quotes from what you wrote down just because I loved how I just love how you wrote them. I love how poetic they sound. And I'm gonna start off with one quote, that is "I am decolonizing the ideas of divine and spirit" and I would love to understand what that means to you. I know what that means to me. But what does that mean to you?

Joy Tabernacle KMT  04:10
You know, it's something that when people talk about divine and spirit it is so fraught with the histories of violence and war and colonialism the have culminated in where we are at in the world right now. The diplomatic, this social magic, the religious arm of war work diligently and overtime to colonize people's ideas of divine spirit to reshape them in the image of the colonizers. And to really redefine possibility how do I say this? Sorry, I got a little drifty there. Sometimes I get a little drifty getting into into the ideas but really dressed really well you think about divine and spirit. And the idea is that most of us in Western society were given a divine and spirit are so narrow, and they are defined by the societies that we live in. So when a when a people is colonized, the religious you know, we all know the history that the religious arm of the colonizers army goes in and wipes out any trace of indigenous spirituality wipes out any trace of as much traces as possible of animism wipes out the language wipes out the cultural context of divine and replaces it with  and has generally replaced it with this sort of all purpose god. And this god, this new god, um, the the point of this, and like, I think that this is an important thing, because it it, it matters whether or not you actually, you know, are deeply spiritual or not. The point of this is to constrain the ideas of the people. Because when you can control what they think God is, or who they think Divine is or what they think is possible, it controls their idea of the world and their idea of what is possible for them. So, so much, so much of the warfare, that, that a lot of us experience internally and externally, a lot of the oppression that we experience has to do with the idea of this very miserly Christian God that sits up with lightning bolts and, and some treats for his chosen people. And if you beg hard enough, then God will maybe give you something, if you're a good enough person. And that idea of divine and that idea of spirit, it first of all, it renders most people emotionally and spiritually immature. Because if your idea of divine and spirit is one that no one is the relationship between an angry, unloving parent, or an angry punishing parent, and you as a child, you can never grow up, you can never mature in that relationship. And it also means that you never have access to your own power. You don't know the expanse of who you are the experience of what's possible for you. Your focus is on pleasing this external authority figure, whose goalposts about what is good and what is bad is ever changing. So even if you didn't grow Christian, if you grew up in any sort of Western society, you still get the whiff of that, it constrains what people see is possible not just for themselves, but possible for society, possible for each other possible for their families possible for their children. You know, and it helps to sort of keep all of this bullshit going. Does that make any sense?

Jamee Pineda  09:23
Yes, that absolutely make sense. Yeah, and it, like what you're saying, is also bringing up for me how distracting that is, because if that power that divinity always exists outside of you, and some other force is gatekeeping it or at least that's the illusion that we're being presented. Like how, how, how could we even understand that we are divine that our ancestors are divine, that we are in touch with some So much power. But it's not power to hoard, right? Like it's power that comes from relationship. That is that is more collective. And like, like a colonizer way of relating to divinity is like, you don't get to touch that unless someone else tells you unless someone else in power deems to grant it to you.

Joy Tabernacle KMT  10:27
It creates this internal sense of insecurity and lack, because it doesn't, it just doesn't work that way, fundamentally, those mechanics are broken, you know, the mechanics of beseeching a god that, you know, is sitting near keeping a scoreboard, this sort of like this cosmic Santa except, you know, more mean? 

Jamee Pineda  10:52
Mhmm

Joy Tabernacle KMT  10:52
Doesn't, it just does not work like that. It doesn't, you know, and so even when people are on our spiritual journeys, and they continue to do things, like for instance, like the Wiccan rule of three, or, you know, these other things that are still influenced by these very Christian principles, and then they find out that they're spiritualities that are not necessarily working for them is because it just doesn't work like that. It may - scarcity and lack are so intrinsic in this society, because there because we are trained away from our power, because we are trained away from a relationship with Divine is actually fruitful and generative and life giving and expansive and, and you know it, we are trained to waver from life itself. We are trained into a superstitious fear of life, you know, that's my son. He was like, he did one of those precocious things, you know, like one of those things you see on the internet, your child, didn't say that? He said, Man, this guy's name. You know, so I gave him the name of God, you know, God's name is life. My guy's name is life, you know, like ever, moving, you know, Cosmos, just singing and moving through you. And you're, you know, you are also a part of this expansion of divine like, and we are interrelated and interconnected. And it's just beautiful, you know, orgasmic explosion of beingness, just propelling itself along the edges of the universe, like this beautiful, like, dance, this cosmic dance that we are all being invited to participate in dance. And but because we live in this society, we're trained to just like, oh, no, I can't, I can't, because if I do that, God's gonna strike me down. I'm gonna get the lightning, I'm gonna get that, you know, so we're just like, a lot of us are just sitting here terrified in these little boxes. And then we intellectually do this thing that we think is decolonizing, where we start talking about like, Oh, yes, I'm god, oh, yes, I'm, I'm powerful. I'm magic. I'm witchy I'm, you know, this, I'm that, you know, but internally, we still have this real deep terror, you know, of actually engaging and being with life, you know, of actually falling in love with the experience that is us of actually like, engaging deeply with the core of our power and allowing ourselves to paint with that on canvas of our existence. You know what I'm saying, exactly what we're here for, we're not doing that, if we're sitting long on the sidelines, waiting for God to sort of open the door and make something happen for us, you know, then we are in an emotionally stunted place. So if you look all over this society, you see people who are emotionally stunted, who are wringing their hands about the, the, you know, everything that's going on, and have forgotten and abandoned and neglected that which is most powerful inside of them.

Jamee Pineda  14:06
I'm just sitting with that, like, just receiving the medicine. I as someone like I am someone who grew up in a Christian household, and most of my family is actually Catholic. And so it took me many years to realize like even though after even though I had stepped away from that kind of spiritual practice, I was still emulating it in different ways, emulating it and how I was doing activist work and how I was relating to my friends or relating to romantic relationships that I was in where it was not Not from a place of, of joyful power. Like it was always from a place of fear. Like, am I doing it right in my ethical enough? Am I being it in? Am I Am I doing the politics in a way that's actually just and it actually made me smaller? Yeah, like I had replaced like this sort of like Christian way of thinking about things with a more activist political way of thinking about things, where on the surface, it's like values driven and connected to social justice stuff, but underneath it, I hadn't cleared away that other foundation-

Joy Tabernacle KMT  15:46
Yeah

Jamee Pineda  15:46
-of disempowerment.

Joy Tabernacle KMT  15:48
Yeah. And a lot of people do, they're in, whether it's through social justice, or through non Christian or non traditional spiritual walks, or, you know, things that are, "counterculture", what you find is that the foundation of how they think about reality is still very much tied to this idea of, you know, life and God as a mechanism for punishment. So you can replace God with, you know, the fear of, I don't want to say being canceled, because some motherfuckers need to be canceled, but, you know the fear of ostracization or the fear of saying the wrong thing, you know, with people, or you can replace that with, you can replace the Christian, the fear the Christian God with like this, this really westernized this really like appropriated idea of karma, you know, that just really not at all has almost nothing to do with Karma as it is known, you know, in its original system. So in a lot of places, you see people who are donning the costumes, right? They're donning the costumes of a more ethical, or a more loving religion, or even they're donning the costumes of justice, or they're donning the costumes of, you know, we all want a world where everybody is free, and everybody is loving, but, and everybody is whole, but the mechanisms that people use in our lives are still punishing.  The mechanisms that people use in our own on ourselves are still harmful, you know, the mechanisms that we use with each other, are still harmful, you know, so until we address not just the context, right, of our experience or the dressings of what we do, but really get down into this fundamental this is the way that I have been taught to see the world, this is the way that I've been taught to see reality. And I'm actually deeply terrified to step away from that. You know, like I was, you know, I grew up very, very Christian, I had to get to a point in my life where I was like, I don't care if I go to hell. Like I actually had to accept the idea that I might go, I don't care if I go to hell, I can't do this no more. I cannot be afraid I cannot be shackled to this fear of hell that I have, you know, because otherwise, hell will just be hell, hell, hell will show up in a different costume. You know. So, it is incumbent upon people who are seeking to be truly liberated, to not just change the costume of their beliefs, but to actually get in to that foundation and free yourself from the confines of smallness, from the confines of fear because life is not against you, life is not against us, life is not a prison.  The prison that we find ourselves trapped in that's just societal bullshit

Jamee Pineda  19:18
How do you walk that tension of knowing that and then existing within a society that has for some people, so much structural restriction?

Joy Tabernacle KMT  19:38
I mean, I feel like is a black queer woman, mother of five who has been deeply like, enmeshed in systems of lack, of scarcity, of all of that. Like, I just you know, I go, first of all, I go to my inner sanctum, I release everything that is not me. Because I may be experiencing symptoms of a scarcity, that scarcity isn't me. You know, that scarcity is not me. It is not mine.  That belongs to society, it don't belong to me, that shit don't belong to me. You know, also, the other thing is, for me, as a hoodoo woman, there has never been a time in the history of Africans being over here, you know, people who, whose I come from people whose ancestors were enslaved. Now on this on the shores, there has never been a time, where the Black people in this country have completely accepted subjugation, have accepted scarcity and lack have accepted enslavement, haven accepted oppression, have accepted smallness, have accepted the life that was prescribed to them by people who felt the need to dominate.  You know, hoodoo is a martial tradition that comes from not accepting that bullshit.  In our lineages we have people who, you know, we didn't have the rent, and we prayed, and we did what we needed to do, we got in our prayer closet, and next day we had the rent. You know, that's life. That's God, that's divine. You know, we never accepted that. Harriet Tubman said, "My people are free." She didn't say my people is going to be free in the by and by, my people will be free someday in 2080. She said, in the midst of enslavement, she said, "My people are free." And her determination that that was the truth led her to not only lead the Underground Railroad, but at the Combahee River to change the course of the entire Civil War, because a lot of people don't know, but the Confederacy was winning. So you know, I don't come from a people who rest in oppression as truth. And I don't accept it for myself. I accept that there are violences that happen. You know, I accept that traumas have happened and continue to happen.  I accept that we are at war. But I will never and have never. I will never for anybody else accept that oppression is the truth of who I am. And it's not. That is not my name. That's some bullshit is somebody that people try to put on me. People try to put on us but it ain't who we is.

Jamee Pineda  23:01
Thank you for that. That leads perfectly into my next question. And it's how do people access their own medicine, their own guidance and their wisdom?

Joy Tabernacle KMT  23:19
The first thing that I would say to anybody who is looking to take that first step is to leave "should" and "shouldn't" at the door. Because everything that you've been taught, you should do or you shouldn't do has come from something, somewhere, that is not you. And I'm not saying not saying that all the guidance that you've ever gotten is bad or all the advice that you've ever received is bad. But if you're looking to find that still, quiet voice, you gotta leave the "shoulds" and "shouldn'ts" at the door. That's what I will say first and foremost.  The second thing I will say, and I think this is contradictory to what a lot of people think, is to really let yourself feel what it is that you desire for yourself. You know most people know the feeling of oh I really really really want this thing so that my life will be better or I want my bill paid. I want this money so that you know all this shit will stop happening around me. But when I say let yourself feel desire what I mean is what, when you think about it, makes you feel free, excites you, opens you up, expands you. What, when you think about it, puts a light in your eyes? What, when you think about it, fills your belly with fire? What, when you think about it, when you think about stepping onto that path do you feel lighter? Do you feel less weighted? Do you feel more whole? What, when you think about it, guides you towards home? What, when you think about it, makes you feel more like yourself, makes you feel more solid gives you more clarity?  What, when you think about it, makes you feel like your burdens don't belong to just you. And then you take steps towards that. Take steps towards that. See people get caught up, especially in this society with like, you know, getting involved in shit that's not like, you know, beginner level shit, because most people are like, Okay, we got to manifest the thing, we got to make the thing happen, we're going to do, you know, we're going to go light the candles and do the thing and make and make and make a car appear and make a house appear, make make love appear and make money appear. And I'm not saying that those things are wrong. Because they're not. They're not wrong. And sometimes we kind of get stuck there, you know, when there is something entirely and completely loving, and beautiful and terrifying, enlivening, and divine that wants your attention. You know? So you know, I'm not saying that people shouldn't do manifestations, do the affirmations or do the rituals for those things. I'm not saying that at all. And to step towards your truth is to step towards that thing, you know.  Anybody stepping towards their truth is stepping towards divine. 

Jamee Pineda  27:25
Mhmm.  I think that discernment that you're making is so important that it's not you're not just going through like a rote activity.  You're not just going through certain steps. The discernment with how you use pleasure, I think, is something that I think about a lot because we've had conversations on this topic before where is the pleasure is what you think pleasure is it actually hedonism? Is it a distraction or a numbing out? Or is it something else? Is it the type of pleasure that's actually life giving to you? And what does it mean to follow that and let that kind of pleasure, let that joy guide your decisions versus letting fear guide your decisions? I think is important and that to me, that's such a, it's so contrary to what we've been taught. If we grew up in more of a Christian tradition, or in a even if you're not Christian, and you you live in the US it is a Christian society, because that has influenced how we interact with each other. Even if you're not Christian, even if you're not white. 

Joy Tabernacle KMT  28:56
Mmhmm. 

Jamee Pineda  28:56
So I just yeah, I really appreciate how, how you're discerning those things, all of those things, because it's, it's tricky.  On the surface, they look all the same. If you're not paying attention, you're not actually listening to yourself, but like, how could you listen to yourself if you've been indoctrinated to listen to a higher authority outside of you that that is such a journey.

Joy Tabernacle KMT  29:24
And if that higher authority is fear, you know, like this, like most people in our society are caught in the thrall and the maw of fear. You know, and that's for a good reason. Because violence is the thing that keeps this society running.  You know, saying? The point of the violence is the fear.  Violence, continual systemic violence, for hundreds and hundreds of years creates a populace that is afraid. So most of us are in thrall to fear and that is not like If that's not like, you know, blame, or you know, to shame or to even, you know, say, say say that that's wrong, but when that is the authority figure in your life, consistently the choices that you make will be choices that are in devotion to that fear. It just works that way. It just works that way.

Jamee Pineda  30:25
It's such a simple idea, like a simple, elegant idea. But there's so much nuance. And it's not something that, like, for me, at least, those ideas are something I'm trying to learn with my whole entire being like, I get it intellectually. 

Joy Tabernacle KMT  30:46
Yeah

Jamee Pineda  30:46
But to actually practice it and live it is. That's a whole other thing.

Joy Tabernacle KMT  30:52
Oh, for sure. And it's not something that's why I said it's not to blame or to shame because it's not like, oh, no, I need to go out here and conquer my fears. You know, because that's still, like, first of all, that's still making fear the center and authority of your life, and also that leads to like, you know, you know, you ever see those white masculine spiritual people who like they're, they're doing a primal shit. And they're like out there doing sweatlodges

Jamee Pineda  31:21
Haha!  Yes! They've always got top knots. 

Joy Tabernacle KMT  31:27
yeah, like, that's, that's what that bullshit leads to. So I'm not saying like this, and I got here and conquer your fears and go out here and like, you know, but it is, you know that there is something else. And we all have had access to this something else. Like, this is not something that I'm just like, pulling out of the sky, like, Yeah, I've been contacted by aliens, and the aliens told me this thing. No, we have all had experiences, moments of clear, moments of understanding the truth of who we are, moments of completeness, moments of being connected to something that was greater, moments of feeling the magic and the mystery and the miracle of the moment.  We've all had these experiences of something that cannot be explained within the current dominant system of fear, which means that it's not entirely it's not real. It can't be according to its own laws, it fears it, this system is everything. And this is all that there is. And this is reality, and this is mundane, and all of that magic, woowoo shit, and all of that spiritual shit doesn't matter. And it doesn't mean anything, then none of us would have those experiences, but we all, without fail, have these magical mystical experiences that cannot be explained within the current physics of these systems of domination. So therefore, that means somebody fucking lied.

Jamee Pineda  32:44
Yep, exactly. Exactly.

Joy Tabernacle KMT  32:47
So our job is not to try to conquer the system of domination. But our job is to get curious about what the truth is.  Our job is to get curious about that thing that is that we know to be true, because we've experienced it, and to not let ourselves be subsumed by the gaslighting that is society. You know, so I'm not saying go out here and fight it with a baseball bat and brass knuckles, you know, but to consistently come back to the thing that has fed you, consistently come back to the thing that's nurtured you, consistently come back to the thing that makes you feel bigger and more alive and more whole and more free. Consistently come back to that and then and then the more that you do that, the more that you have crafted and created a pathway to miracles, a pathway to divine, a pathway to liberation through the acts of devotion.

Jamee Pineda  34:09
Speaking of being curious a few weeks ago you emailed me about Edge and Bloom and I would love for you to talk about that with our listeners

Joy Tabernacle KMT  34:25
How to talk about Edge and Bloom is a complete bafflement. This is the place, Edge and Bloom is a 13 month Mystery School, all of that but I'm not even going to put too many labels on it because this is not a place...Edge and Bloom is not a program that you come to because I've made promises. I make no promises about what Edge and Bloom is.  Edge and Bloom is a place that you come to when you want to devote yourself to the experience of rapture that is life, when you want to devote yourself to being in the fullness of your existence. So, if it is a place, I mean, of course, we're going to be doing shit, you know, like, _____ me in and we're going to have ritual and ceremony and all of those things. But Edge and Bloom is designed to completely fucking confuddle you. It is an autonomous zone that does not live within anybody's ideas of what is possible.  It is for six people who want to go on a real fucking wild ride and experience the edges of the unknown. Walk into the dark, get to know themselves in their soul, listen real clearly to who they are, Get real, get real solid in their own truth annd their our own power. Like it's for it's for that, like, it's for that, you know, it is a clarifying initiatory movement. So, you know, if your soul if your soul feels that shit, you know, if your soul feels that then you should contact me. Well, I'm not gonna say should, but I invite you to contact me.

Jamee Pineda  36:47
I have, I've been in circle with you many times now. And I never really know where it's gonna go. But it's always gonna go where it needs to go.

Joy Tabernacle KMT  37:01
Yeah

Jamee Pineda  37:02
Yeah.  Oh, just that I have witnessed, you know, my own transformations. Working with you. And then also just being in the presence of other divine beings, who are in the, in whatever cohort I've been in has been really beautiful. Like, I'm getting medicine just in proximity to the other folks that you gather in circle and you always gather people with a lot of intention.

Joy Tabernacle KMT  37:35
Yeah, I, um, I, you know, well, you already know how I feel about you. So yeah, you know, when I when I gather you with intention, I gather with you with intention. Because, you know, you will talk about that another time. And you already know, but Edge and Bloom is, yeah, it's not. Um, it is like that. This is not something that's prescripted, like, I don't generally do prescriptions, you know, that about me. It's a place where I am challenging my own edges. So you've been in a circle with me, I know that Edge and Bloom is going to be that much more intense, that much more deep, that much more rich, that much more freeing, you know, that much. It's going to be a, like, a container where you are walking through the fires of your own soul, like I can't, I can't really describe it. I hope y'all are getting a feeling. I hope you're getting a feeling from it. Because, you know, catch the whiff of the essence of it, you know, I'm doing my best to try to, to try to give English words to it, but it refused to be defined in those ways.

Jamee Pineda  39:01
Is there an experience that you can liken to it?

Joy Tabernacle KMT  39:09
I feel like the easy lazy experience will probably be childbirth, you know, given birth to yourself, but I don't Is there an experience,

Jamee Pineda  39:23
you say given birth yourself as if it is a casual experience? There's nothing casual or easy about that.

Joy Tabernacle KMT  39:32
I sit in a rarefied air of people who are intentional about giving birth to themselves continuously. You know, you being one of those people. You know, the type of people that I hang out with so when I say given birth, like Yeah, you know, yeah, you know, I expect that there's a certain amount of resonance that people have with that. But I would liken it to what I would say this, this is, this is a place where you will take radical responsibility for yourself, for your life, for your path, for your own power. It is moving from God as a parent, as strictly a parent, to life as a partner.  It is dancing in the beautiful cosmic way that we are in, like applying that shit to your life. I don't even it's still it's bafflement. And it's not a place to come for stability, like for, I'm not gonna say stability for stagnation, it's not a place that you're going to come for short answers as a spiritual work, you know, for some time. You still there? 

Jamee Pineda  41:08
Yes.  Looks like you might be frozen. You back.

Joy Tabernacle KMT  41:15
I think I was like what happened? So, you know, it, it's probably, it's probably not a good look that I'm continuously struggling with describing this program that I would so love to play with people in. But it's not a place that you come if you want  want assurances you want promises.  It is a place that you come if you've been doing spiritual work, if you've been on a road, if you've reached a certain level of maturity on your path, and you want to play all the way to the edge, you know, and you want to feel the fullness of your relationship with divine.  You don't want the intellectual.  You don't just want the memes and the shit that everybody's saying but nobody's really applying.  You really want to apply these principles, these understandings of reality, and really walk and live in that.  Again, it's an initiatory path. It's the difference between belief and knowing. A lot of people believe shit.  People believe that they're spiritual, that they're healers, that they're gods, that they're goddesses, that they're this or that they're that.   They're priests and all of these other things, but they don't know it. You know, Edge and Bloom is where you know it because you experience it, you know, so that's why I think that I am having trouble summarizing it because it's not an intellectual exercise. You know, there is no script, there is no curriculum, it is us in a circle together and divine.  It is ceremony, it is ritual, it is walking into the night, it is moving through the forest, it is getting baptized.  It is screaming, wailing, crying, loving bliss.  It's a fucking mess just like life and it's going to be beautiful.

Jamee Pineda  43:31
Yes, I have not been in circle with you where someone hasn't cried at some point. Not saying that, like you have to like someone needs to cry in every session, but just to illustrate the intensity with which we sit in circle together. And that there is...everyone is on some kind of transformative path that is specific to them as an individual. But it's all connected to everybody else, as well. Which I appreciate, which i i see why it is hard to describe the program because it's going to be different for each person and we're going to be digging into - you're going to be digging into stuff that is like, not easy to look at sometimes.

Joy Tabernacle KMT  44:25
Yeah, and it's you know, it is a place, a place, considered a program, but a journey and a movement, a place that will answer questions that you had and question answers that you have. So, befuddlement.

Jamee Pineda  44:45
Befuddlement.  So how do folks connect with you so that they can be further befuddled?

Joy Tabernacle KMT  44:54
The best place to get in contact with me is on my Instagram, which is @tabernacle.life. T A B E R N A C L E dot life L I F E, that's the best place for people to contact me. They can also go on my website, which is www.tabernacle.life. But if you try to get on Edge and Bloom, you will need a password. So you should just DM me.

Jamee Pineda  45:24
Excellent. Last but not least, what BIPOC group or individual would you like to uplift for our community shout out.

Joy Tabernacle KMT  45:38
Oh, hold on, let me pull up this Instagram page real quick. So I can make sure that I get their name right. It is called @lovingblacksinglemothers. And it's on Instagram.  @lovingblacksinglemothers and they also have a website that is lovingblacksinglemothers.com. And they raise money for Black single mothers. And yeah, there's so much that I can say about why that's important. But it's with some of the most profound - like if you want to transform society, if you want if you are about that work, and that's that's what you're interested in. The best thing that you can do is give Black single mothers money.

Jamee Pineda  46:37
Hell yeah.  Thank you, thank you for for sharing their information. So folks, check them out, redistribute resources, support them, however you can. All right. Thank you so much, Joy, for this conversation. Every time I talk to you I feel like I've gone to church. So thank you for that.

Joy Tabernacle KMT  47:06
You know, that church background, you know, it's always going to flavor you a little bit.

Jamee Pineda  47:11
Yeah, it's like, it's like the good flavor. It's the good part. 

Joy Tabernacle KMT  47:15
Yeah, yeah!

Jamee Pineda  47:17
Not bad church.

Joy Tabernacle KMT  47:19
It's the part that was co opted, you know? Well, we'll get into that and another private conversation about that. Thank you for allowing me to get up in the pulpit today. I really appreciate you and love you and love the spaces that you hold today in. So thank you,

Jamee Pineda  47:38
thank you Got some announcements for this episode. The first one is that I'm continuing to divest from my presence on social media or my engagement with social media. So I encourage folks to sign up for my newsletter. That's where I'm going to be putting my most up to date information about my practice and also about this podcast. And also share this podcast. That's always really helpful when you can help me connect to folks that are really a good match for me to do community medicine with, to learn about, learn from. I love when people can get that word-of-mouth going. My second announcement is that I've taken down the zine shop that I had on my website and I've decided to just make the zines available for folks on my Patreon at all tiers. It's a little bit simpler, it streamlines the process for me, and more folks get to access those zines so they're on there now. It's the collection of the five phase or five elements zines. So go ahead and check that out. Third, I am very excited to announce that The Digital Altar: A Gender Fucked Grimoire For the Community Witch is now live. So this offering is curated by the Living Altar, Baby Reckless, Jezmina Von Thiele, and it's edited by Jezmina Von Thiele.  It is a collection of several different community witches on there that have offered up their writing, and their music, their artwork. I've got few pieces in there. So go ahead and check that out. I'm going to put a link in the show notes for you all to go and see that. I wasn't going to do this, but I've decided to schedule some Qigong classes for QTBIPGM because I really just missed it. And I think that we could all use a little nourishment this winter, especially within community.  There's a lot of fucked up shit happening. And I just, I was really craving that communal healing space. And I thought that other people might want that as well. So you can see the schedule on my website. It is at jamee-pineda-lac.com. I am continuing to do bonus episodes on my Patreon. So that's been kind of fun, and I think I'm going to continue doing that. So episodes on there will be coming out every New Moon for the time being. And last but not least a couple of Patreon shout outs to Leilani Mroczkowski and Christine Maribbay McLean . Hopefully I pronounced your names correctly. I apologize if I haven't. And for folks who don't know, the funds from Patreon help to support captions for the podcast and also help with scholarships and sliding scale for QTBIPGM Qi Gong so that we can keep that as accessible as possible. Maraming salamat for listening to The Decolonizing Medicine Podcast. Music is by Amber Ojeda, Hedkandi, and Rocky Marciano. Big thanks to Cuán McCann for audio engineering all of the episodes. And last but not least, thank you to all our listeners and supporters out there. In that


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